Our Properties: Gamasutra GameCareerGuide IndieGames Indie Royale GDC IGF Game Developer Magazine GAO
My Message close
Latest News
spacer View All spacer
 
February 10, 2012
 
DICE 2012: Activision's Hirshberg believes creative people should lead companies
 
GDC 2012 reveals Super Mario 3D Land, Resident Evil Revelations postmortems
 
What drives the developers of Unity?
spacer
Latest Features
spacer View All spacer
 
February 10, 2012
 
arrow Virtual Goods - An Excerpt from Social Game Design: Monetization Methods and Mechanics
 
arrow Principles of an Indie Game Bottom Feeder [21]
 
arrow Postmortem: CyberConnect 2's Solatorobo: Red the Hunter [1]
spacer
Latest Jobs
spacer View All     Post a Job     RSS spacer
 
February 10, 2012
 
Adhesive Games
Senior Engine Programmer
 
Adhesive Games
General Engineer
 
Capcom Game Studio Vancouver, Inc
Producers & Designers Wanted
 
EEDAR
Business Analyst
 
Rockstar San Diego
Tools Programmer
 
Rockstar San Diego
Gameplay Programmer
spacer
Blogs

  I Would Never Do This In Real Life
by Adam Bishop on 04/13/09 10:40:00 am   Expert Blogs   Featured Blogs
19 comments Share on Twitter Share on Facebook RSS
 
 
  Posted 04/13/09 10:40:00 am
 

Most of the games that we play allow us to do things that we either don't or can't do in our regular lives.  Many of those things are benign.  For example, NHL and NFL games give me the opportunity to place myself in the role of a major league general manager, drafting and developing talent, signing players to contracts, and things of that nature.  That's not something I'll ever have the opportunity to do in real life, but it definitely is something that I'd do if I actually did have the chance.  Similarly, while I may never play a big rock concert in a packed stadium, Rock Band lets me simulate the experience, and it's one I would jump at if I had the chance.

But most of the games we play put us in the shoes of characters we would never want to be.  I don't imagine most of the people who've played through Fallout 3 would ever actually want to live in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and I doubt that more than a few of the millions who have played Metal Gear Solid have any desire to actually try to prevent the deployment of a walking nuclear battle tank.  But the reason players don't want to engage in those activities is likely because of the personal danger they would face, or the considerable disruption of their personal life.

Many of the things we do in games though are things that we simply wouldn't want to do under any circumstances.  I sincerely hope that most players of Grand Theft Auto have no desire to actually run down their street shooting civilians, for example.  So why do we play games that let us do things that we find objectionable?  Where do we draw the line?

I think this becomes a bigger issues as games get more complex and realistic.  For example, while I would be horrified at the prospect of actually running a hacienda, I still think Puerto Rico is a great board game.  At the end of the day, nothing that you do in Puerto Rico really has anything to do with what the game is ostensibly about.  While the game requires you to import slaves, for example, they're simply little wooden chips, and the only "work" that you make them do is placing them on the board.  The game is really about math, not slavery.

But with modern games, the line is becoming increasingly blurred.  What if Puerto Rico was a computer or console game with full 3D graphics with the realistic look of, say, Crysis?  Even if the overall mathematical simulation going on under the hood was still the same, it wouldn't really be the same game.  What if in this realistic, 3D version of Puerto Rico, where the "slaves" are not little wooden chips, but fully modelled humans, you could beat your slaves to make them produce more goods?  Even though the core gameplay and objectives are still the same, I would find that extremely troubling, and I think a lot of other players would as well.  Something that is relatively harmless at the abstracted level of Puerto Rico might not necessarily be when it's made more explicit.

And while I know that some people reading this will say that everything is fair game, and who cares because it's just entertainment, I think that ultimately most people would acknowledge that there are limits to what they would personally accept.  For example, games that require the player to murder are often extremely popular.  But how would we react to a game that tasked the player with comitting rapes?  I'd be horrified, personally.  Or what about a game that tasked you with simulating the murder of Matthew Shepard?  Well, not only would it be objectionable, but at least here in Canada the game would almost certainly be illegal under hate crimes statutes.

As I was thinking about this issue the other day, I actually ran up against a situation in a recent game that made me stop playing because I found it objectionable.  The game is Far Cry 2.  Now, it's probably a bit strange to stop and point out something that I found morally objectionable after I had already spent about 15 hours in that game doing little aside from shooting people and blowing things up.  And while I would like to say that all the people I killed in Far Cry were a threat to me, in retrospect there were characters that I killed who were unarmed.

The situation that made me stop was this - one of the two factions in the game had some sort of super-powered malaria medication.  And the task for this mission was to destroy the medication, ostensibly to cripple the other faction.  Now, in Far Cry 2, all the main missions have alternate paths.  But the alternate path for this mission was simply a more elaborate way to destroy this malaria medication.

There was simply no way I could justify doing that sort of thing in a game, even "in character".  Malaria infects hundreds of millions of people a year.  According to the World Health Organization, it kills close to a million people a year.  Children are the most frequently affected demographic.  There is just no level on which I can find the continuation of one of the deadliest, most prevalent diseases in the world as "entertainment" and it certainly isn't "fun".

I understand that the goal of the mission was to prevent the opposing faction from having the drug.  OK, ultimately that's not really any worse than shooting them or throwing a grenade in their truck, so if I can accept shooting them, I should be able to accept taking away their medicine.  But the game did not simply task me with taking it, the game tasked me with destroying the means of producing it.

Now, my character in this game is a mercenary.  Wouldn't there be a considerable black market for a super-powered malaria drug?  Wouldn't I want to steal it and sell it?  What about the Underground, who have been providing me with malaria medication throughout the game: wouldn't they be overjoyed if I were to pay them back by providing a strengthened medication for all the civilians they're trying to help out?  If the game had simply given me the option of taking the medicine rather than destroying it, I probably would have been satisfied.  But the game did not present me the option.  It told me that I had to destroy the source of the medicine or I could not continue.  So I turned the game off.

Ultimately, I'm not really sure where the line gets drawn.  I've been thinking about this issue for quite a while now, and I don't really know in the end why I accept some things, like when I murdered an unarmed man talking on a cell phone in Far Cry 2, but not others, like rape or the destruction of malaria pills.  But I do know that the line exists, and I'm interested in trying to understand why and where it exists more explicitly.

 
 
Comments

Blake Nicholas
profile image
The "line" is different for different people, it's as simple as that. I'll do ANYTHING in a video game because it is fake. I have no morals when playing a video game. It's all code and art assets, that's it. There is a similar scenario of that which you describe in Farcry 2 existent in our own world. Actors in movies have to play parts that they don't agree with all the time. De Niro had to play a psycho taxi driver, but it was all fake. Some actors may have been uncomfortable with playing that part; their "line" was different than De Niro's.

Now with that said, there are times I want to mold my in-game character a certain way and if the game doesn't accommodate that I can kind of lose interest. My in-game character molding is very different from yours though. You're a goodie goodie it sounds like so you would want a good alternative to build your character the way you see fit. I'm evil when I play games. I want the worst possible alternatives to create a truly heartless in-game character. Our "lines" are total opposites.

So it isn't a matter of "knowing where the line exists" because there is no end all be all "line" for everyone. You can only truly know your own "line" is. As video game creators the best we can do is to offer multiple good and bad options to any given moral decision to hopefully accommodate everyone's "lines".

Adam Bishop
profile image
You'll do anything in a game? Anything at all? Let's say someone makes a game called "Kill the Homos". It's a voice activated game that requires a microphone to play. It's a very simple game: every time you say "Die f** die!" one character on screen dies. The quicker and louder you shout out the phrase, the higher your score goes. Would you honestly play that game?

Blake Nicholas
profile image
Yea, I would do that. You are getting away from the point though as you went from a scenario in a game that forms an overall experience or character to a game based solely around killing homos. The game has to be good to play it no matter the content. A game where you just say "Die F** die!" in a mic isn't a fun game. Now in the context of a larger game where I had a character or a story and I was given moral choices to mature my character how I see fit then I could definitely see myself performing that action. As I said my "line" is different than yours. Your example is kind of unfair though as it involves "me" as the avatar because I have to actually say these things with my own mouth. So admittedly, while I suppose I would do this given the right context of the overall game, I would be more inclined to do it if my avatar on the screen was doing it and I was telling that avatar what to do which is what I thought we were talking about.

Edward Vertigo
profile image
You bring up a good point about having more choices. If the game allowed to you truly decide how to handle the situation involving the medication, you would probably have kept playing, but by forcing you to do something you found personally apprehensible, you instead chose to turn the game off.

As much as I love the Grand Theft Auto series and The Sims series, I hope future games will allow for more choices covering wide spectrums, as opposed to having only one forced outcome, good or bad.

As for where to draw the line, that's a tricky subject indeed, with no easy answers. I, too, am okay with random slaughter, yet feel that rape would be too far for me, even if it's just a game. Very good article!

Logan Margulies
profile image
@Adam: I really, really liked this article. It's hard to talk about where the content line is, without being too reactionary, or on the other hand, too permissive. I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem though, is that the "line" will always be subjective. The malaria mission that gave you pause in FC2 didn't even occur to me. In my view, I'm playing the game to beat it, and I'll complete what missions I have to complete, kill whomever I have to kill, to complete the game. The implications of my actions don't really occur to me, and when they do, I consider my moral considerations in a game as distinctly compartmentalized from my greater moral compass.

That's just one other approach. The real question is, how do you practically deal with this issue? Hate speech laws, such as the Canadian or German models, just don't seem to be the way to do it. By targeting certain expressions of belief, no matter how objectionable and ignorant, you give them more exposure. The more status and notoriety you give the people who perpetuate those beliefs, the more they remain an entity.

And you don't engage in the slippery slope of censorship. Sure, we can agree that certain things are beyond the pale. But once we do away with the things we clearly agree on, we begin to disagree. It's where the lines blur that you have problems. And if you have to err on one side, I choose freedom of expression.

Personally, I think there's a lot of merit to the "marketplace of ideas" approach. First put forward in a dissent by US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marketplace_of_ideas), it's exactly what it sounds like, applying market principles to ideas. Let's take your "Die f**" game as an example. If someone decides that a game mechanic that simple, and an idea that controversial, is going to play, he needs to be willing to invest the capital to put it out there. Both the social capital in the revulsion it might cause and the backlash that might hit him, but also the actual money and man hours to put the game out there.

And people then have the option to play the game or not. Rather than give someone free press by legally proceeding against their bigoted game, let it die a quieter, less obnoxious death from indifference. Indifference will kill an idea with much more certainty than outrage, and certainly government legislation.

Kevin Potter
profile image
Your malaria example reminds me of Mass Effect, when Wrex confronts Shepard over the imminent raid on Saren's Krogan breeding facility.

Wrex pleads for Shepard to preserve a genetic cure, one that reverses the slow retroviral disease that his species was afflicted with. All of Shepard's possible responses say, with varying degrees of impoliteness, "Screw you Wrex, your species deserves to die, now fall in line or I'll kill you myself."

Throughout the conversation I wondered why the hell anyone thought Wrex should accept his own genocide. I finished the game, but it bothered me that I was shoehorned into doing something so monstrous.

Mark Harris
profile image
Wrex had been accepting his own genocide for years before that choice. He had been passively watching his species fall to the wayside and had done nothing worthwhile to change it. In essence he had been destroying that facility continually for decades.

As the game dialogue mentioned, should he offer up the salvation of his species on the altar of slavery? What's the point of the cure if it ends up ushering in the end of all advanced civilization? Shepard appealed to Wrex's sense of reason, which won out over his animal emotion to lead him to the right decision. That is the true victory in that scenario, the true salvation, is a krogan overcoming his powerful animal nature to reason out a future not only for his dying species, but for all of the other races. Perhaps that example, performed in front of Salarians, the very race that designed the genophage, could spur a search for a cure. Perhaps Salarians witnessing the nobility and sacrifice of a krogan will lead to a true cure.

That scene has plenty of depth if you look for it.


As of for the OP : the line is in your mind, and is as subjective as any other choice. Logan brought up the marketplace of ideas, which sums it up nicely.

Adam Bishop
profile image
Yes, it's definitely subjective, and I had no intention of saying otherwise. But even things which are subjective tend to have reasons, and I'm interested in what those reasons are. They're going to be unique to each person, but that's part of what makes them so fascinating. I'm not trying to say that any particular idea should be banned, I'm trying to understand what makes some behaviours acceptable to us as players but other behaviours unacceptable. I mean, I really doubt that a game that was about the player committing rape would ever be as commercially successful or widely accepted as many games about killing are. But I'm not entirely sure why that is, and I'd like to understand it better.

Jeff Beaudoin
profile image
Part of it is presentation, also. Any behavior in a game will be less engrossing if it is not properly motivated.

The examples you gave of games people would not want to play (rape simulations, the simulated murder of an innocent, etc...) have no motivation attached to them at all. Any game I have ever played where you are required to kill someone at least has some motivation behind it, even if that motivation is something as simple as money or a high score. It would take an awful lot to justify/motivate rape for most people.

The line is drawn based on whether the motivation provided justifies the actions (within the game world) to you. For your Farcry example, destroying the drug was obviously not sufficiently justified for you to do it, as is shown with your many reasons for why it didn't make sense to you within the context of the world.

GTA is an example of a game that is motivated very well. The fact that you are playing as a thug trying to make money by whatever means necessary along with the gameplay that is fun regardless of the narrative goal presented is enough motivation for basically anything they ask you to do. Killing civilians is acceptable to most people simply because, in the context of the game, it is entertaining and basically consequence free.
An interesting counter-example is that many people say that they lost interest in the narrative thread of GTA IV at the point where Niko beats a woman, because they felt like that is not something that the character would have done. The motivation at that point broke down, and the gameplay was not as justified for those players anymore, even though I am sure they have run over countless female civilians up until this point.

So yeah, it comes down to personal preference, but we as developers can cause players to do things (for good or ill) that they might normally not consider, if we do a good enough job motivating them.

Blake Nicholas
profile image
I agree with the motivation required to justify the act like Jeff pointed out. I also think generally people hold rape and molestation of children as the absolute worse things you can do, even worse than murder. Even prisoners in jail will not stand for those things. If they find that a fellow prisoner has done that they will be sure to make them pay more than just their sentence.

Reid Kimball
profile image
Murder doesn't cross that line because the game fiction justifies the "necessity" of murder by saying the antagonist force has "worse morals" than your char. While you may murder your opponents, you are doing it for a "greater good"; usually to protect your society from extinction or to avenge an injustice. The antagonist usually murders out of selfish or irrational desires, which are frequently indefensible.

Rape on the other hand, can it ever be justified for a greater good? I don't think so, but do prove otherwise if you can. Similarly, say in game you can choose to murder your enemy with an execution move or chop off a body part and let them go. In a twisted way, I think most people would say murder is more "humane" than chopping off an arm and letting the enemy go.

Reid Kimball
profile image
Sorry for stating exactly what Jeff and B N said. I didn't see what they wrote while I was typing/editing my response.

Kevin Potter
profile image
Mark, why ought anyone go out of their way to save an international coalition that willingly employs genocidal viruses, least of all by sacrificing themselves to their murderers?

Tom Newman
profile image
All is fair game as long as it serves to drive the narrative, whatever that narrative may be.

Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood" put the reader into the mind of a serial killer. Many readers found the book terribly disturbing, but it is a true classic of American literature. Coppola's "The Godfather" presented a protagonist who solved problems by murder, and that is considered a treasure of American cinematography.

I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, and all forms of expression. Personally I may find a game like "Concentration Camp Manager" to be morally reprehensible, and would never allow such a game in my home, but I belive the freedom to create it is most important.

James LeGeros
profile image
Rape, as the main objective, has been seen in at least one commercially released game. In 1982 Mystique released Custer's Revenge for the Atari 2600 in which you play as a naked General Custer which you have to navigate across the screen, dodging projectiles, in order to rape a tied up Native American girl.

The punchline being "When you score, you score!"

Now, in no way am I saying that this game was "successful" or a "good game" I am just pointing out the presence of such a game designed with such a goal. Certainly there are people that played the game and ignored the moral implications and possibly there were gamers who actually enjoyed this game.

Tim Atton
profile image
The difference between 'in-game' morality & 'real' morality is what I think is an issue here. I can happily play GTA4 and do 'in game' things that I would find appalling in real life, but thats just me. (Are all game players able to consider 'in-game' & 'real' morality as totally separate?)

What proportion of GTA4 players would be more likely to commit a crime having recently played out the scenario in a game? ...and if so, how responsible is the developer if this happens?
I guess that there are some players who would become less violent (having played out the scenarios in a safe / simulated way), some that would want to take the experience closer to real life (...and maybe have some fun with real guns) and some others players would not be effected.

If racist / homophobic / rape based / paedophilia based games were developed & published, there would be a small market of sick individuals who would enjoy the game, and clearly many of those individuals would be getting closer to the experience of doing terrible things and enjoying it. Does the act of imagining an event make people more comfortable with actually doing it?

Bob McIntyre
profile image
Really interesting post, Adam.

I think that one key thing about your "Puerto Rico" example is that art can be more effective in some cases by involving the audience in a participatory way. Slavery is horrifying to me in an abstract way, because I've never experienced it directly in any capacity. Movies about slavery can create emotional attachment, and in some cases the director's intention may misfire and create "we should have slavery again" ideas in the viewer's mind. Games are no different. "Killing people for being gay is a very serious problem" is the intended point, but some people will think "beating helpless queers to death is fun" even if the game is meant to meant to communicate the exact opposite idea. You can't control how someone interprets your work of art. And as much as I hate to say it, even a game that glorifies extremely unpopular, destructive ideas needs to be allowed to exist. Hopefully, it just won't sell too many copies and will not be made available to minors.

Lee Thompson
profile image
@Tim

"If you can't keep your obsession with grenades and AK-47s to video games, then you have bigger problems."

The kind of person who could be influenced to immoral (the murder/rape/etc. you describe) behavior by doing it in a video game must already have a skewed enough moral compass that they would be ready to accept those actions as acceptable. Game developers cannot be held accountable for the moral integrity of their audience, and they are not making instruction manuals for crimes. The "small market of sick individuals" you speak of are just that- sick individuals. Creating a game that uses morally questionable behavior as a mechanic did not make them that way.

Everyone draws their own line. No one else can draw it for them.

Mark Harris
profile image
@Kevin : Because the alternative is worse? Just so that he has time to exact his own revenge at a time of his choosing? Because he has come to an understanding that the genophage was in response to the aggressive war perpetrated by the krogan against the other species? There are plenty of theoretical reasons.

We can debate the morally ambiguous nature of that particular galactic organization all day (one mark of a good game, I might add ) but I think we'd be pulling this thread off topic.


none
 
Comment:
 




 
UBM Techweb
Game Network
Game Developers Conference | GDC Europe | GDC Online | GDC China | Gamasutra | Game Developer Magazine | Game Advertising Online
Game Career Guide | Independent Games Festival | Indie Royale | IndieGames

Other UBM TechWeb Networks
Business Technology | Business Technology Events | Telecommunications & Communications Providers

Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Contact Us | Copyright © UBM TechWeb, All Rights Reserved.