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The Dungeon Master:
An Interview with Gary Gygax
Harvey: As a game designer, what do you
think of the WotC D20 mechanics? I've played 3rd Edition D&D since it
came out, and I've picked up the new D20 Call of Cthulhu and the espionage
game Spycraft, as well. (I was a fan of the original CoC and the TSR espionage
game Top Secret years ago...) Personally, I consider D20 an amazing accomplishment.
What's your opinion?
Gary: No question that the D20 system is well written and very
tight considering all of the mass of detail contained therein. That makes
it a bear to design for, nearly impossible to vary from the massive framework
of the system. The D20 OGL is a very clever move too, as it provides support
for the core system, brings in more players to it, and expands the fantasy
base into other fantasy environments as well as into whole new genres.
After 30 years of role-playing gaming, however, I find that the system
is too rules oriented for my personal taste, too centered on combat as
well, so I will play it, but I do not enjoy DM'ing it--although I still
love to DM for original D&D or AD&D.
What I sincerely hope is that 3E brings in many new players!
Harvey: Something we talk about here
a lot at Ion Storm is how to get the best creative and technical work
out of a team of 20-30 people. Computer games (especially RPG's) are huge
today, with tremendous budgets. I feel that a small group of people-working
toward a common creative goal and putting aside as many issues related
to ego as possible-can achieve synergistically better work than a single
mind is capable of producing. As someone who is seen as a lone wolf writer/designer,
do you have any thoughts on the collaborative creative effort?
Gary: Didn't some wag once state that a camel was a horse designed
by a committee?
In creating a new game I believe firmly that there must be one controlling
force, one mind, as it were, even of that refers to two or three persons
with a shared vision. (After all, I have frequently collaborated in this
regard:) Now, when the base is built, the unique design completed and
that being played, there is much room for new vision so that the design
can grow, offer new aspects, and remain compelling. Given that, however,
I do believe that there must be a controlling vision overseeing the new
material.
Harvey:
Why do you think sword-and-sorcery fantasy has maintained popular dominance
in the RPG world? It's always more popular than genres like spy fiction,
mystery, horror or SF. Fictional trends (like cyberpunk) come and go,
yet medieval or renaissance European patterns remain dominant. Can you
shed some light on this?
Gary: Other than to point to human history, I can't offer much.
Campbell in treating the mythic hero seems to have pretty well nailed
down the answer. There is something in the human subconscious that thrives
on such fiction. The FRPG is merely an extension of that deep-seated part
of our minds that hears and answers the call to adventure by picking up
a game...
Harvey:
Since the thought crystallized in my head, I've always said that there
are two approaches to RPG character creation: One where people try on
completely alien personas as a way of experimenting, and one where people
play some facet of themselves (perhaps taken to an extreme). I fall into
the latter camp-every character I've ever played is some reflection of
me. Your opinions?
Gary: Oh-oh. I am a bad person to ask such a question. I envision
the character I create only in the game at hand, and pretty well stay
within those bounds. Thus, any character is "alien" to me. On
the other hand, I can only assume the role according to what I know and
think, so at the same time that persona is an Avatar of the actual "me."
Harvey:
I don't want to put you on the spot, but, wow, you've had a huge, unsung
impact on our culture. Role-playing games have filtered their way into
the world in a number of ways. RPG's brought with them authorial ownership
over play experiences. RPG's brought persistence to play experiences.
The impact on computer gaming has been indescribably huge. Many people
have been affected on a personal level, as well. (When I moved from Texas
to California, one of my long-term gaming friends and Deus Ex co-designer,
Steve Powers, sent distressing word of the new gamers he had started playing
with after my departure, sarcastically describing one player nursing her
child at the gaming table while her character was firing acid arrows at
wererats. This is one of the ways I mark a personally milestone in my
own history.) How do you feel about having played such an interesting
role in so many lives?
Gary: It is a vastly stimulating thing, that impact you mention,
and also quite humbling. I am always greatly heartened when I hear from
fellow gamers who pass along how much enjoyment my work has brought to
them, usually coupled with the camaraderie and friendships made, how much
the game aided them in dealing with life and helped in attaining their
potential. Had I initially realized how great the impact was to become,
I would certainly have reflected on how I should present the initial work,
and that might well have stifled the creativity. Still, as the positive
is something well over 90 percent--more like 99.9 percent from direct
communications I receive--from my current perspective I don't think I'd
change a thing in regards the concept.
Harvey: I know you're a fan of the Elric
books and of The Hobbit. Ever read the Chronicles of Amber? Were you a
Roger Zelazny fan? Do you have any personal experiences to relate?
Gary: Well, a little on Zelazny. I really liked the first couple
of "Amber" yarns. Zelazny's Jack of Shadows is in the
recommended reading list in the AD&D DMG appendices, as are his
Lord of Light, and Creatures of Light and Darkness, if I recall
correctly. In fact, one of the latter two books was licensed for a major
theatrical film, and when I was out on the West Coast the man who held
those rights took me to see Roger to discuss the project. We had a most
interesting meeting, he being great company. Sadly, as with the film project
for the D&D game I was working on at the time, both came to naught.
Harvey: I was playing Warcraft 3 recently,
which features a race called the Night Elves. For your games, you created
the Drow, didn't you? What a great concept...dark faeries. From literature
we have similar Norse myths about dark elves and the Unseelie Court from
Ireland. Certain concepts come up over and over, with some deeper power
over us. The Drow concept rocked some of us, when we were kids. It was
as if you gave a voice to those of us who did not identify with golden
knight-heroes. The Underdark was powerful stuff somehow. Tell us about
how this came about and about how people reacted. Also, do you have any
thoughts on writers playing with age-old archetypes? Is that something
you do deliberately when design games or writing?
Gary: Two parts here, eh?
In regards to the drow, I found the name in an unexpurgated dictionary.
At that time I was writing the "giants" series of modules for
AD&D, and planning the sequel. That became the D series, for Drow,
of course.
Conceiving of the vast lightless underground labyrinth--much inspired
by Jack Vance's "Planet of Adventure books, specifically The Pnume
and Margaret St. Claire's Sign of the Labyris--was fairly easy.
As it developed it became clear to me that I needed a ruling race for
this "Underdark," a fey people if you will. The Norse dockalfar
with crow's feet wouldn't do at all, so I devised the drow as appearing
in the D series modules. The kuo-toans were clearly a minor factor, and
even the illithid (mind flayers) could not be placed into this lightless
realm as the great masters of it. To emphasize the difference of this
race of dark elves I made the females more powerful than the males. (Incidentally,
I had meant to do the same in a new race of potent, good elfin sort, but
never got to it before I left TSR.) Anyway, the drow were devised to be
the antithesis of the usual elves, and the concept worked very well, I
must say. There is a good deal of satisfaction in seeing others take my
unique creation and develop it into a very major part of the universe
of D&D as has been done.
Now, as to the archetypes, yes. I did that unconsciously when I first
wrote the D&D game, later on with forethought in other design. As
I noted above, I have not neglected the archetypical figures in the design
of the LA RPG. As a matter of fact, I believe it is a very important component
of creating a game that has longevity.
Harvey: The sky is slate gray and purple.
The clouds overhead seem to form impossibly-large faces wearing ominous
expressions. Backed by this gloomy sky, a pale young sorcerer regards
you warily from atop the ivy-covered remains of a shattered tower. What
do you do?
Gary: I waste him with my crossbow, quickly loot his body, then
complete the destruction of the tower, of course!
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