I agree with him.......Nintendo continue to innovate...I will be here to support

I still can't believe Sony decided to come out with a one-handed motion controller to compete with the Wii Remote. The Sixaxis was arguably not a response to Nintendo's announcement of the Wii Remote, but the PSWand definitely is! Just like all the iPhone wannabes, I'm sure consumers will notice the PSWand as a wannabe Wii Remote.

I'm curious to see what the PSWand commercials will look like: It only does everything...that the Wii Remote already does.

some factual evidence to chew on i mean seriously ""COMMONSENSE MUST ALWAYS PREVAIL"".....

sony ps3 wands = 300 degrees tracking per second MAX / NATAL = 300 degrees per second tracking MAX

Wii's wii motion plus = 1600 degrees tracking per second NO CONTEST

NATAL offers no sound feed back ,no rumble feed back ,no analog stick,no aim and shoot ability its waving at camera's for Christ sake... eye toy advanced...


Sony wands offer no mouse pointer , no analog stick,no sound feed back ,look like sex toys,and light orbs would become highly annoying in a darkened room light flashing past your line of sight NO THANK YOU......


ADD TO THE ABOVE ""FACT""

CAMERA MOTION LAGS NINTENDO DROPPED IT LIKE A HOT STONE THEY HATED IT AND IT GOT DUMPED...

resident evil alternative addition for ps3 proves how gimp it is you have to hold and use a dualshock one handed then use a wand in other hand THAT IS THE GIMPIEST CONTROL OPTION IV EVER HEARD OR SEEN

SONY= FLOP NATAL = FLOP

Wii shall continue dominating and if a wii sd,hd idea happens its game over for competition and theres always nintendo going hybrid console next year or 2011 i.e a handheld that docks and becomes a console

believe me the japaneese market and global markets are far more in the hand held direction WHY TWO SYSTEMS WEN ONE CAN DO BOTH

@Derek:
Maybe they will show cool stuff, like swords and guns, instead of chopping stuff or cute stuff...

But Sony being Sony, they will probably do something that is totally creepy and has nothing to do with the actual controller.

Helder they have shown it, one hand a dualshock (supposed to be two hands) and a wand capcom gave us early look at just how dumb sonys wands idea is

COD NATAL vs COD WIIMOTE WM+ AND NUNCHUCK natal is screwed clearly

There's something to be said for focusing effort in this case. Nintendo does have extra peripherals, but the basic Wii controls are obviously primary. The recent offerings for the other consoles appear (are) tacked on to the primary input scheme. This is not only somewhat confusing for consumers, it puts burdens on the developer/publisher effort to justify the tacked on accessory, while still 'holding up' the primary input as primary. This all seems rather risky unless there's a need these accessories fill that the primary can't. And if that's truly the case (it's not imho), it seems they'd be better off making a hard switch and offering backwards compatibility with the new inputs devices.

I'm assuming that with the Natal you can use the gamepad at the same time. Your body would just become another interface (duck, jump, dodge, etc.).

Done correctly, it could be very cool.

@ addy paddy:

"NATAL offers no sound feed back ,no rumble feed back ,no analog stick,no aim and shoot ability its waving at camera's for Christ sake... eye toy advanced..."

Please define "sound feedback"? You mean no sound from the controller? Not a big deal if the sound is coming through the Xbox 360. I don't believe we know all the facts, but any reason you can't use a normal controller in conjuction? Are you an insider with information that many of us aren't privy to?

Sorry, you come off as being very speculative at best and a fanboy at worst.

Hard to say what will happen since Nintendo has a 1:1 attach rate for Wii Remotes, but unless Microsoft and Sony give these things away I doubt they'll reach the same market penetration.

no that's gimp your defending gimp WHAT YOU ARE SAYING is the continued use of a totally out dated controller and then simple jump up and down or move a hand and wave or nod your head THAT'S NOTHING MORE THAN A GIMMICK..

I WISH PEOPLE WOULD TRY THINKING ABOUT THIS

all of the above is doable on wii controls not one control then another or a controller for one thing and a camera for something else THAT'S SEPARATING THE INTERFACE AND MAKING T NON IMMURSIVE AND CLUMSY....

wii offers all your buttons and analog AS PART OF YOUR MOTION CONTROLLER NOT A SEPARATE ENTITY

EXAMPLE's

analog combined with pointer/analog combined with 3d motion/buttons and motion/buttons and d-pad and motion/no motion at all but still use analog and buttons

and so on and so on and so on and so on

its all combined into a CORE/CASUAL friendly true gamers interface/control


Microsoft are separating the two ideas WITCH IS STUPID and natal is not suited to fps x360s biggest genre GO FIGURE


Wii offers all gaming types from point waggle or button bash to highly advanced motion fps controls sport controls ALL IN THE SAME INTERFACE THATS THE HUGE DIFFERENCE HERE


treating motion and point as add ons extras will not work treating it as a part of the actual old skool control does work

wii has proven that

ANOTHER SPEC / ABILLITY I SHOULD HAVE LISTED IN MY FIRST POST ::::

PHYSICS

wm+ not only allows 3d motion it allows REALISTIC PHYSICS as its reading the actual pgysics of your hand wrist arm movement at the point of movement YOUR HAND/WRIST

MAKING VIRTUAL ANYTHING POSSABLE FROM GOLF CLUBS TO RACKETS TO WHAT EVER


A CAMERA CAN NOT DO THAT AND SONY WANDS AGAIN CAMERA BASED TRACKING CANNOT DO IT

Wii motion plus is vastly superier its a factual thing NO FAN BOYIONG HERE IM QOUTING ENGINEERING FACT


1600 DEGREES AT THE POINT OF MOVEMENT TRACKING

VS

300 DEGREES AT A CAMERAS

NO CONTEST

sorry to keep posting but i was asked

define sound feedback

speaker in your wii remote (there's no immursive sound feed back on ps3 wands or natal) that's what i was referring to....
EXAMPLE's

the ball hitting your bat/racket/golf club etc

the sound of your weapon reloads and even the sounds a weapon makes whilst fired

little gimmicks like wii-mote phone walky talky type sound gimmicks

mine detectors the reel of your fishing rod


combining a sound feed back with souroud sound IS GAME THINKING


picking a new sound format from dolby and not adding such a speaker is MOVIES THINKING nintendo clearly think GAME NOT MOVIE

AGAIN COMMON FLAMING SENSE BY THE GREASTEST GAMING COMPANY ON EARTH ITS ALL JUST COMMON SENSE AT WORK

Oo

Addy the way that you write is strange to my taste...

Anywya, ignoring that, I think that all three are flops, even the Wii Remote, altough it has some high sales, the best Wii games (and the ones with most sales too) are the ones that DON'T extensively use Wii Remote.

To me these motion trackign stuff are just a solution in search of a problem.

"Anywya, ignoring that, I think that all three are flops, even the Wii Remote, altough it has some high sales, the best Wii games (and the ones with most sales too) are the ones that DON'T extensively use Wii Remote."

I'm sorry Helder, but I just had to respond to this.

The top selling games ARE generally the ones that use the Wii Remote, whether extensively or sporadically. These are the top 10 selling games:

Wii Sports
Wii Play
Wii Fit
Mario Kart Wii
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Super Mario Galaxy
Wii Sports Resort
Mario Party 8
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Link's Crossbow Training

Of those titles, Smash Bros. is the only game that doesn't really use the Wii Remote. Every other title does. Even Mario Galaxy consistently uses the pointer and motion controls (for spin attacks). Other levels use the tilt sensor extensively.

Saying that the "best" games don't use the Wii remote's capabilities is pointless and indefensible because it's subjective as to what a good game is.

"continuing redefinition of what a video game is, along with increased pick-up-and-play capabilities."

@ Taure Anthony
The Nintendo brought for a second time the Arcade games in our home with the Wii, but I don't see any innovation in that.

Everything a Wii-Mote can do, you can do it with a 360 or PS3 controller. Playing a game differently doesn't necessarily mean better. When you get tired after 3 hours of boxing, I don't find it enjoyable compared to the number of hours I can experience with a 360, PC or PS3.

I can't wait for a more advanced motion control solution. I really don't care who does it. The Wii Mote intriguied me; until I used it and got bored at the imprecision and dumbed down applications. Hopefully, future versions will really nail the marketing promises.

Sadly, I think that the idea as a practical input system is before its time. Maybe it's just me, but we might need holographic displays before we start trying to move realistically in real life to animate something in a virtual world.

@Christopher Plummer, the problem with Natal is that you don't have touch feedback. No matter how good it is, you can't hold a sword gripping air, or hitting someone without getting the rumble. Holographic displays would have the same problem, unless they incorporate feedback (for example, with compressed air) but it would either be extremely big (to fit the whole body) or you would be forced to keep the hand within a container. The Wii Remote is the best solution.

@Roberto

I agree. Even if the Wii Remote is not the best solution, the WiiMotionPlus demonstrates that Nintendo is constantly taking steps to improve on their technology, and so far the WiiMotionPlus solution is the best we can ever ask for (Nintendo's already working on the next Zelda which will make the most of it).

The competition still needs to establish their motion control solutions with living rooms around the world before they can even start taking steps improving on their technologies. Nintendo is already there, which is a huge advantage over the competition.

@Hélder

"To me these motion trackign stuff are just a solution in search of a problem."

I disagree, the problem has been around since the beginning of video games: how to make games more immersive and intuitive.

@Hugo, then this stuff is missing the mark.
@Mike, do you think that you need to waggle a stuff to do a spin attack? Or randomly point something on the screen to collect ammo? I dunno about link crossbow training (never heard of that game before Oo), but from that list, only the bundles (sports, play, fit, sports again...) use the motion controller really... Other games when they use is in a frivolous manner (what I meant in my post).



Let me explain better: Wii controller allow 2 actions, aim (poorly... since it don't track your TV you need to "guess" the calibration sometimes, among other bugs, like once that I saw it non-working because the sun was reflecting a steel shelf nearby and the controller detected it), and rotate (no actual translation without the "plus" stuff).

Aiming, if done properly is usefull for SOME games, mostly rail shooters, regualr shooters suck with that sort of aiming unless they are some sort of exception (like Mech Warrior III, where the pointer control the arms of your robot, while the regular FPS controls control the legs and torso). So, aiming is just a sort of cool but not that usefull gadget, otherwise those "laser guns" that we had for NES and Master System would be much more popular today. (unfortunally to me, I LIKE these games... too bad that there are none for other systems).

Then we have the rotation control, on Wii you can only twist your hand and it will detect it, the result is that it is just a sort of "floating" joystick, if properly used on a game design it can be used to some purposes (steering wheel, movements in-game that use wrists...) but yoú can see there too that it is limited, you cannot do a AAA FPS or RPG and expect the Wii remote to solve your problems, in fact usually it CREATE problems, look at the HUGE amount of badly designed Wii games that use motion sensor for nothing (altough that is a GOOD game I say, waggling the controller to spin in mario is just idiotic, a button would do the same, it is nowhere more immersive or intuitive)

Motion control does not solve any problem, it is a solution in search of a problem, making games more immersive and intuitive cannot be done using only those stupid motion control.

Also we need remember that not always someone WANT to use his arm instead of a button.

If the Wii was THAT good, it would not be collecting dust on all shelves that I saw a Wii (I saw already LOTS of Wii, all them today are deactivated, several in favor of a PS2, some in favor of a XBOX 360, and some the owner does not play any console anymore).

I see motion control as a cool acessory that has some uses, I for example would love some good games made with the PS3 wand, or some cool rail shooters, but all this movement that I see to turn that in main control is stupid, plainly stupid, often games usign these technology has cumbersome control schemes and bad interfaces, and not because the designer was a bad designer (even if he was), but because these controllers are a poor choice for some games.

@Helder : I don't understand, it would be fun on PS3 but not on Wii? Anyways, all you are missing the point: the wiimote is COMPLETELY integrated into the system. It is like a mouse control. You select menus, browse the net, play tennis (with family). No one is scared of it.

Then when you play the cool "gamer" games like Lost Winds, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Kart (with wheel) you don't have to worry about support or not. It just improves everything. They have the analog and buttons still there. Basically it's a normal controller separated into two parts (one for each hand). It has rumble and a speaker too.

Only the graphics are a bit rougher on Wii. Regarding controls, it truly is an improvement over everything. best of both worlds. Why would anyone complain?

The "collecting dust" comment is so old, man. Besides, I own a PS3 and that thing is a dust magnet. We are all veterans of the 16-bit wars. Just enjoy the games!

@Joseph

I am not supporting the PS3 or Wii motion control, what I am saying is that they are both just acessories, not good control methods that solve problems.

And yes, the wiimote is UNFORTUNALLY completly integrated with the system, liek I said it is pretty imprecise its aiming, using it to navigate menus is a pain.

@ Joseph
The problem with the Wii is not the number of games, it's the number of great games. Compared to 360 and PS3, there are so many games for everyone on the Wii, that it generates a poor library. If a player just love Metroid Prime or Smash Bros, but doesn't find any other game of that genre, what is the point of buying a console for one game? There is a lack of support for great games on the Wii and that console actually does just give us something to do rather than giving something of a greater quality. After 3 years, aren't you tired of waiting for better games? Nintendo is putting too much efforts on accessories that they lost their views on gaming. The Wii is not about gaming, it's about attracting 50 years old women.

However, that's exclusively my opinion.

I remember back in the old days when I was a forumite on Gamestop arguing the case for the Wii's new radical input, and how the broken controller theory was used as then main backlash for those who argued in favor of traditional methods. Fast forward about 3 years and it seems that the majority is starting to get the philosophy built in to the mechanics of the Wii's input. If you are here to argue the case of graphic powerless between the three consoles and how the Wii lags and doesn't live up to that graphical immersion, then your just beating a dead horse. If you want to say that having a PS3 / Xbox360 controller in hand can deliver the same experience than that of a Wii mote, then your are either just in denial, or you like to continue to argue against the new majority view. No matter how you word it, Microsoft, and Sony's response to the Wii mote is in response to what has been going on with sales records of said games. It is evidently clear that one of these things is not like the other and people have responded to that. Now 3 years in, the very companies that said motion didn't matter are trying to be like the thing that s not like the others. Clearly it has just been seen that this response is nothing more than a half measure. If motion was not fun, or didn't add to the experience of a game as much as graphics do then I would suspect the other two companies would not even bother with half measures. Like it or not though, it has in the mine of many added to the experience and game play of a game, regardless of how much you can or cannot imagine the experience should be. That's just the bottom line.

Playstation is going to be different because their motion controller will support hardcore games.

edit to add: Hardcore games with HD graphics. I'm sold.

@Kevin

If hardcore gamers like motion controls, then they already own a Wii and they have games like Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition and Metroid Prime Trilogy, which are hardcore games that improve on their traditionally-controlled counterparts.

Trying to appeal Sony's PSWand to hardcore gamers will be very difficult, as you can see from some of the people here who are arguing how much they hate motion controls. And if Addy is right about playing Resident Evil 5 with left hand on the DualShock 3 and right hand on the PSWand, then hardcore gamers will not be interested if that's what it takes to play a hardcore motion-controlled game.

It's a very narrow audience that the PSWand is supposed to appeal to, and that's why I believe it's going to fail.

I find it interesting how people even here on Gamasutra try to deny the pure facts. Nintendo sold almost as much consoles, as the competitors combined. The slowdown in sales we are experiencing now is part of a general trend in videogames console sales, it's no Wii-exclusive problem.
I find it ridiculous if people are still saying the Wii library is not good or the motion tracking is unsatisfying.
Apparently the majority of consumers doesn't think so, month for month the Wii is outselling the competition, I can't imagine the all these people are not satisfied with the motion controls or with the games library, otherwise they wouldn't buy the console, right?
Everything else is a matter of taste. In my taste games like COD5, RE5, GTA IV, Fallout 3 totally suck, they don't give me a gaming experience I am interested in. But are these games inferior in technical regards, cause I think they are deadly boring? No.
Here on Gamasutra are many people, who are working in the games industry. I think some of the criticism is still part of the reaction to the radical change the industry experienced in the last 5 years. New audiences demand new games, that is surely hard work- After the video games crash in 1983 the industry mainly targeted the typical 16 year old male hardcore gamer, at least the american industry did. It was a well defined relationship between gamer and the industry, he got served, what he wanted and he got it in great ammounts. But suddenly this 16 year old boy seemed to have lost interest in gaming, he didn't brought enough of the HD consoles to bring it manufacturers or the publishers into the black. I don't know why this happened, but it is a fact.
In this situation a new gamer type emerged, who was there all the years already, but he was invisible for most of the industry, cause he (or she) mainly brought Nintendos Gameboy and Nintendos Gameboy-Games. These people have different expectations from a console and from the games. Right now, Nintendo seems to fullfill this expectations very good, other are trying to catch up.
But I think if the main argument is still the motion control sucks and the game library is poor, then the argument is disproved by the sales reality on a daily basis.

I agree, Derek. I saw a video of somebody playing RE5 with one hand on the analog controller and one hand on the wand--it was so stupid. Does PS3 Motion Controller have a D-pad?! Why don't they put one on it?!

But my argument is the same...the PS3 wand is awesome because it is motion control for the PS3 and the PS3 has awesome hardcore games with better graphics than Wii. Was that clear?

"using it [the wiimote] to navigate menus is a pain"

The last shreds of sanity left this thread long before this quote, but... wow. How far off from reality can you get? Maybe next we'll hear that touch screens on handhelds are a pain. And computer mice are a pain. Then we'll go back to the days of entering our initials on the high score list by holding down the control pad to scroll through all the letters (and digits). That way we don't have the pain of simply pointing and clicking.

I like this one too: "Everything a Wii-Mote can do, you can do it with a 360 or PS3 controller."
Really? Please, tell me how to unlock them! All this time I've been waving a 360 controller around like a maniac and it never worked for me! And the Sony sixaxis, for the life of me I've never gotten it to store memory or play a sound or act as an on-screen pointer. Is there a part you unscrew or something to make it work?

Honestly, does anybody know a website where I could submit these quotes for some kind of Internet award? I'm not kidding, this stuff deserves some recognition.
Sorry if this offends anyone, but guys, do you think maybe you've gotten a little bit carried away?