Q&A: Affinity's Maffei Talks IGE Sale, MMO Media Future
John Maffei was a ten year veteran of Microsoft, and is currently the senior vice president of business development at Affinity Media. At the Online Game Development Conference, he spoke on a panel about the audience of online games
, along with representatives of Microsoft, The9, K2, CCP, and Flagship Studios.
Gamasutra took the opportunity to sit down with Maffei after his talk, to hear about how Affinity Media works, its ties to controversial gold-farming firm IGE (since severed), and the players of these online games.
What's your background in the game biz?
John Maffei: I was, most recently, at Microsoft. So I worked on all the digital media stuff. From April of 2000, to the end of 2002, I ran a startup called Rocket Pipe, which was very similar to what Google Desktop tries to do, with pushing out information.
I have the impeccably bad timing of starting my start-up in April of 2000, and also the good fortune of leaving Microsoft in April of 2000, when its stock was at an all-time high. I closed that start-up, went back to Microsoft, and probably the most interesting thing I did at Microsoft was license all the video content from the studios for the Xbox 360 [Live Marketplace]. Disney, ABC, Lions Gate, Paramount, I kind of started up that project and did a bunch of that.
And before Microsoft?
JM: Earlier in my career I was a finance guy, so I worked in New York in finance.
So from New York, to Microsoft, and that got you into gaming?
JM: Iíve always been a huge gamer, in terms of an advocate myself. I love gaming. My favorite game, even today, is Rise of Nations
. I had the best time with those games. I also loved Asheronís Call
when I was at Microsoft.
My background is media, itís not gaming, but Iíve always been associated on the periphery in the gaming space. Even when I was on the Xbox team, I was focused on media. But Iíve always been a passionate gamer.
How did you end up at Affinity Media?
JM: Microsoftís a great place to work, but it is a somewhat challenging environment. People work five years on releasing Vista. I wanted something in the media space Ė because I love the media space Ė but I also wanted an environment that was small enough you could go actually make a very big difference. Someone told me about the opportunity at Affinity Media and I was very excited.
Tell me what Affinity Media does?
JM: Affinity Media is basically a holding company for different gaming assets. Clearly, there were three parts to the company. There was an IGE division, which everyone knows about. And while weíre not releasing the details, itís common knowledge now that IGE is no longer a part of Affinity Media, that weíre no longer in that business.
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Confirmation of IGE's new owner seems to come via Allakhazam's site owner
, who commented in April: "A month ago, IGE was owned by Affinity Media who also owns us. Now, IGE is owned by Jon Yantis, who, I believe, was one of the original founders of IGE but had sold off his share years ago."]
Weíve got a very strong auction presence in Korea. In Korea, itís different, with gaming being part of the culture, people game all the time, and we own one of the larger c-to-c platforms in Korea. Very popular, and very different from some of the things that go on in the United States, in terms of the attitudes of gamers.
And we have the ZAM content network, both in the US and China. The three brands that people know the best are Thottbot, which is obviously our database for World of Warcraft
, Allakhazam, also a database, but with forums and a more qualitative experience, covering a full range of games, and MMO Interface.
Thatís our U.S. footprint. We also have a China footprint. We have a deal with Shanghai Media Group where we operate something called GamesTV which equates very similarly to G4. We show replays of the best gamers in the world playing each other. There are interviews. Itís a real 24/7 television station. Itís a joint partnership.
We also run ZAM.cn, which all in Chinese, but itís similar to the things youíd see in the US, where you have game fan affiliated sites. We take a lot of that video from television and repurpose it for the web, you can go an watch those on the web.
So is that analogous to what theyíre always telling us about, that in Korea there are television stations that play StarCraft tournaments?
JM: Thatís exactly right. In fact, there are other fun models. In China, we sponsor a team. Itís a big deal - these people really love it, itís fun. We actually have Ė not huge arenas Ė but arenas that people come to once a week. So thatís been fun.
How does television work in China? Is it cable based, or transmitted...
JM: The one weíre working with is digital cable. They pass cable through, like any other business. Weíre reaching millions of households today, but obviously itís a very big place, and itís an investment in the future. Weíre hoping that itís going to go. Weíre getting in, in its infancy.
When we first met, you said, ĎOh, I bet I know what youíre going to ask me about.í What did you think I was going to ask you about?
JM: Oh, just everyone has been so interested in the IGE thing, because IGE is a controversial business. Very controversial, and weíd always kept this incredible differences between the businesses.
If you go to any of our sites, youíll never see a gold-selling ad. The guys who founded our business, guys like Jeff Moyer and Bill Dyess, theyíve got absolutely nothing to do with that other side of the business.
So for us, it was a positive, in that we thought, for the people who cared, thatís no longer an issue. Since itís a private company, a private transaction, weíre not releasing actual news on terms. But weíre no longer in that business.
Although during the panel (see Gamasutra coverage here), you came off as pro-gold farming.
JM: No, no, definitely not pro-gold farming. Iím very pro-consumer. I do think, regardless of the legal arguments, that if someone thinks, Ďhey, I put all this time into the game,í that they own that character, and thatís just the fruits of their labor. If I use Microsoft Word to write a word document, even if I used Microsoft Online World or something, itís the fruits of my labor. Itís my idea, itís my creation. I feel like those guys who play feel like, Ďhey, thatís ours.í Even if theyíre not into selling and trading, fantastic, but itís their choice. At least, thatís my opinion.
What I think you said during the panel was correct, that regardless of what the EULA says, thatís how players actually feel.
JM: Yeah. The thing was, Josh [Hong, moderator and K2 Networks founder] wants to keep things lively. Itís pretty funny because he points to me, as the Ďoh, you go be the secondary market defender.í There are guys who are much better defenders than I am.
As the guy who says, look, if you want to be successful in this business, regardless of if youíre in the content business, the gaming business, or the commerce business: you better do what your users want. You better make your users happy. Youíve got to go create an environment where your users are happy.
Thatís one of the things I feel very strongly about. Iím not going to judge you on what you do or donít do, I would never do that. I just think publishers should just be cognizant that users feel very strongly that itís their game when they play the games, and that itís their investment. Donít be cavalier about users feelings, because they have very, very strong feelings.
We deal with the same thing on the content side. We run a content business, but we have to listen to our users, because they will give us grief Ė rightfully so Ė if weíre not doing what weíre supposed to be doing.
It was kind of funny, because Joshua didnít have a staunch secondary market guy up there, so I got appointed the staunch secondary market defender. It wasnít a role I particularly... I feel strongly in the rights of the individual.
So, like any other media company, the money just comes from advertising?
JM: Two business, advertising and subscriptions. Clearly we have a lot of users, and a lot of people come, so we have hundreds of millions of page views, well over ten million unique visitors a month. Eyeballs are important. People who like the sites spend a lot of time on the sites. The average person who is using our site are spending over twenty-two hours a week online. Well over fifty percent of them are college educated. The average mean income is about $50,000. Twenty-five percent of them are married. So itís an 18-to-24 demographic, but itís not the 7-11 kid that Eric Bethke mentioned in his keynote.
He had this really great point. He brought up the guy you buy beer from at 7-11. In his spare time, he might be the number 13 WoW
player in the world. Whatís more impressive Ė the fact that he can kick everyoneís ass in WoW
and has such dominion there, or the fact he sells beer at 7-11? I thought it was a good point. Eric is big on the value of the virtual world.
Itís a diverse set of people, lots of different people play the game. One of the things I would say is people who come to our sites are the hardest core gamers out there, and we like that. Theyíre spending a ton of time on our sites, a ton of time playing these games, and theyíre very passionate about the games.
Right now, you deal exclusively with online games. Why donít you do single-player? Why donít you do game FAQs?
JM: Well, you can get game information on different games, you know, guides and information. Itís really been a question of focus. Clearly, thereís a bigger console market than there is an MMO market. But just as IGN stuck its toe into the MMO space, and pulled it out... youíre good at one thing. You'd better master what youíre good at.
Weíve got a lot of work to do, but we think weíve got the MMO space... at least a pretty good understanding of what we need to do. Weíve got lofty goals, things we want to do, so letís go improve in that market. If it turns out we want to grow, weíll always think about the opportunity with the console.
There are so many cool games coming out that we want to go work with. Even walking around here, this has been awesome. Weíre so psyched for the Marvel game. Pirates of the Burning Sea
is going to be extraordinarily cool. Hellgate: London
weíre super-excited about. There are just a ton of titles that we think are going to be super, super, super cool. EVE Online
- amazing game. Itís not just WoW
, there are so many other fantastic games.
So far, itís been a blast. I love working in the MMO space.