| Jeff McArthur |
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I live in Guatemala, and this sounds like a really good idea to me, for the large % of the population that can't afford a wii or Xbox 360 (due to the fact they have little income and consoles are significantly more here). - Jeff
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| Christopher McLaren |
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Good - little DRM problems. Cheap. Downloadable content.
Bad - basically a smartphone locked into a console(have you seen the spec?). They could try to have expandable hard drives so that eventually they can have downloadable DVD's |
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| Frank Smith |
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Like consoles have a vast DRM problem, and if this ever get wildly popular, laugh, than some one will find a way. This sounds like the worst product ever, what happens to your games when this craps out, not like Sega Dreamcast, or others, where you actually have the disc, if this company goes under your probably screwed. And I bet most people won't pay for downloaded games, who knows though, maybe they don't know any better though.
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| E Zachary Knight |
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@ Frank
I would have to disagree with you. I think this is a great idea. While the technology is not complete and solidified, the concept is an idea that I thought could be viable. So you have an account and you can take your console anywhere and play those games as long as you have a signal. Sure there are concerns over DD games on all platforms. Especially when DRM is concerned. What would happen if the company goes bust? But we don't move forward without taking some risks. |
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| Mark Donovan |
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Quality real-time MMO experience over a wireless network? Sounds expensive, even in developing countries...
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| Jorge Barros Cabezas |
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We cannot expect a direct competition against 7th generation consoles, but I hope so in a future... maybe 5 or 10 years, this could be the latin america console, something as japan and nintendo, who knows hehe
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| Roberto Alfonso |
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Yeah, I like the idea. It will eventually reach us in Argentina, so I may be checking it out.
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| Niles Plante |
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I think is a great idea for developing nations. Its easy for us to forget that infrastructure and cost have traditionally kept the western gaming culture out of these areas. I'm up to support anything that helps grow and expand the gaming culture to new markets and grow the industry as a whole.
My only concern whit this model would be the issues surrounding fulfillment. Wireless seems incredibly convenient for the customer, especially if the plan is built into the console. The downside is that anytime you turn a core part of the experience into a dependency on MNOs, you are opening yourself up to playing by their rules; rules which have traditionally been dismissive to the needs of the end user and game publishers. I'm not sure what it is like in South America, but if Mobile Network Operators are as backwards there as they are in NA and EU (i.e. While they have made no improvements to SMS technology in 15 yrs and their costs for SMS delivery have gone steadily down to next to nothing they have consistently raised the price to send and receive messages) they won't understand this concept enough to help nurture the console and help it grow its base. The dismissive sentiment is already showing in some of the comments made by Rizzo. Expecting a user to wait until 2 am to play a game? You don't really get more dismissive of the customer experience than that but with the current model, Zeebo may not have a choice. Fulfillment dependency issues aside, best of luck to Rizzo and the Zeebo team and I hope they succeed. |
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| Caleb Garner |
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Well it sounds like once the games are downloaded there is no more issue with signal.. so if the service goes down your ok.. but yea if the machine broke, that would be bad.. they are looking to use as little bandwidth as possible as they pay for that not the consumer.. which is really smart.
I would like to know the specs also.. and what's the price point? To avoid re-downloads issue, i think they are right.. free redownload. however to avoid abuse, they could lock the device from allowing deletes until the system IS full.. that way only people who have in fact filled their machines would qualify for re-downloading something... Handango did an interesting thing offering x number of downloads and after that contact customer support... the contact system would be pretty relaxed, but the point is that if some hack / piracy thing were going on, the human element would help notice trends and react accordingly. I hope they do well with it. Sounds like they are tapping into a unique (and unfortunately large read: poor) demographic. |
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| Maurcio Wagner |
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I have a friend that worked with Tectoy (Brazil) and s/he said there's poor planning and management, bad marketing strategies, and not that great support from Qualcomm on the project. The project was far behind schedule and that it was like no one really had any idea what to do with it, which I think you see from this interview. S/he also said Tectoy laid off some employees related to the project.
In Brazil the console is going to run with the mobile provider Claro and Tectoy will pay all costs for the connection for users. I don't know how long that can last and still be profitable especially if it does become popular and they add online gaming. Also 3G isn't that big in Brazil yet and even in big cities like Săo Paulo the connection can be really bad. The price they said during news of the release in November was US$250. That's expensive for their target market and is more than the very popular hacked PS2. You have to understand that in Brazil Tectoy is kind of a joke. Hardcore gamers don't take it seriously and casual poor gamers have much cheaper console options. They've got a good idea with this but I really don't think they understand the market and I don't think they can execute it right. My friend really thinks it's going to be a big failure. |
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| Ian Fisch |
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Are things really so bad in Brazil and S. America that a console of BREW ports could be popular? Brazil isn't the Congo. They're a huge trading nation so I don't see why they couldn't have legitimate games sold at legitimate retailers. Even if PS2 is out of their price range couldn't Sony do something with the PS1 that Brazilians could afford?
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| Maurício Gomes |
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Sorry but I also think that this will be a epic failure if they do not change some things.
First, their claims not only on their website but also on interviews are really not only false claims but downright ridiculous (they said that they could reach the graphical quality of Resident Evil 4... I wonder how...), like on their site they claim to be the "best game system of all times" and that you will play the "most cool games with the best graphics ever made"... Also the console like someone said is just a cellphone in a box, the flash memory is downright small (1gb), to stick 50 games there like the CEO said, you would need to make each game 20mb, also as someone pointed, the cellphone infrastructure here SUCK, it is HORRIBLE, I already tested the 3G modem from Claro and the download speed is horribly inconsistent, ranging from 0,5kb/s to 20kb/s (altough the cap in theory is much higher, the bandwidth is shared between several subscribers). But nothing of this would be a problem if all that got to be the cheapest option for its target market, but for that price is is ABOVE the price that its tarket market can even pay, I am for example in the 30% richest portion of the country and I still can not pay for that console. While I will be able to pay for a PS2 after is launch here (Sony is building a factory in the tax-free zone). |
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| Geoffrey Mackey |
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@Ian
I would agree with you. I hear the Genesis does well there still. It seems like Sega could sell the Dreamcast technology there and whoever manufactures it could replace the GD-rom with a CD-rom and make sure the piracy is fixed (or not if they don't want to). Seems like that wouldn't cost anything these days to make such an old console. You could get local developers making games too. |
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| Jordan Hartley |
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Hi, my first comment hear, but i just wanted to add my 2 cents worth.
I think the fact that Qualcomm are one of the partners for this project may mean a US launch is very unlikely, as qualcomm have a patent infringement in the US with broadcom over its 3G wireless chips and any device using them are illegal to sell in the USA. Since Qualcomm is a big partner I would expect the system to use their own 3G chip and therefore it would either have to drop it for there own 2G chip or use someone else's for a US launch. A 2G chip would probably be too slow for the system and I've not heard of any other mobile devices that have dropped the qualcomm chip just to enter the US. |
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| Bruno Evangelista |
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Zeebo works with 3G networks but it will automatically scales down to 2G when necessary! Using 2G networks Zeebo store will be available in almost every city in Brazil.
The inicial price point ($250) might appear expensive but ORIGINAL consoles like XBox 360 retails for $900 in Brazil. Games are expensive here too, with Xbox games costing aroung $100,00. Zeebo games will retail for $10~$20 bucks. @Marcus You cannot compare Brazil's black market with official stores! Also, I believe Zeebo do not want to compete with a HACKED PS2 (where you get your games by torrent) but provide an option with low cost ORIGINAL games in PORTUGUESE. A wireless console that you can use to download and play games anywhere without a cable sounds like a great idea for me. |
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| Jonathan Pynn |
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it is slightly worrying that the CEO isnt really sure on the business model at this point. It is a pretty brilliant concept. A brilliant concept won't neccessarily translate into profit though.
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| Maurcio Wagner |
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I think Bruno Evangelista, if it's the Bruno I'm thinking of, should point out he works for Tectoy.
Bruno, I really think you overestimate how many Brazilians care about getting video games legally. When people make like US$500 or $600 a month they care about price not ethics when it comes to consumer goods. A hacked PS2 with pirated games is cheaper and comes with a larger library than Zeebo and anyway Sony is going to start officially selling the PS2 in Brazil soon from its own factory there. Zeebo might not WANT to compete with the black market but they will be. I think a parent in the Zeebo target market is going to go to Casas Bahia and look for the cheapest system, which is not going to be Zeebo but yes some poorly made clone that comes with a ton of horrible games stored on it. These parents don't know Xbox from Wi Vision and if they do know the difference I really don't think they'd disappoint their kids by buying a Zeebo instead of a really known brand like Sony. Like Jonathan said it's worrying when the CEO doesn't even understand the company's business model or target market. It's a good idea in theory but it really doesn't seem like anyone at the company gets it. I'm Brazilian but haven't lived in the country for years and still I cheer for a national company to be successful. I just don't think it's going to happen with Zeebo. |
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| Mike Lopez |
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Sweet NES-like retro controller!
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| Maurício Gomes |
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@Bruno
You are comparing a XBOX 360 and Zeebo... Zeebo obviously can not reach that power, I am combaring PS2 and Zeebo (and PS2 is still better), but PS2 IS cheaper, ORIGINAL, I already saw with my own eyes LEGAL stores selling PS2 for 250 USD, or worse for you, Zeebo resembles a PS1, and I saw LEGAL stores selling that for 100 USD... Really Bruno, it seems that you work in tectoy, learn that: The people want the external media back, SPECIALLY in the Genesis (to those wondering: The lastest Genesis version has no cart port, only the games in the memory), not because they like to pirate (altough that is a reason for many of them), but because there are games that in the case of your older consoles, are not in the memory, and in case of Zeebo, may be too big to fit, for example: I already noticed that it may be possible to make something like Shenmue for Zeebo if you are REALLY persistant, but that will not be feasible, since that would drain most of the flash memory, leaving little space for other games. But btw: I like the controller! |
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| André Pequeno |
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It's a good idea, but they the price of the console will be VERY high.
It will be 600 reais. Something about 260 dollars. LOL. With 550 reais (217 dollars) you can buy a Playstation 2, wich is very popular here. So, PS2 is smarter choice. With some more money 1.200 reais (521 dollars) you can buy any next-gen console here, because here PS3, Wii and 360 has basically the same price. So, the Zeoobo is a good idea, but its price is more expensive than a PS2, but it has less technonoly than a Dreamcast. LOL. There is no point about buy a Zeebo. It's better to buy a PS2. Brazillian companies are aways like this. High prince and low technolohy. Here we have some NES (yeah, 8 bits) clones being selled by 300 reais (130 dollars). They think about their consumers like idiots. |
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| Bruno Evangelista |
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First, I do not work at Tectoy but at Tectoy Digital which is, in fact, a game studio. Here we make software/games not hardware! Also, we work on many platforms, such as mobile phones, iPhone, Nintendo DS, Zeebo and others.
If the main concern with Zeebo is its price, just sum up the price of a original PS2 console plus 5 original games and compare it with the Zeebo price plus 5 games and see the difference... Yeah, if you want to buy original games Zeebo is definitely the "cheapest choice". (An original PS2 game costs around $50~$80 bucks here). Also, many PS2 consoles that are sold at "official" stores here came from black market. Last month, for example, about 20.000 PS2 and PS3 were hold on customs here, because they entered Brazil as glass bricks. Again, Zeebo do not compete with hacked PS2! People that do not spend money buying games will not buy a DRM protected console (no matter its price). But for people that want to buy original games in Portuguese, Zeebo might be a good option. |
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| Maurício Gomes |
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The questions is: Who want to buy original games in portuguese? I mean, certainly persons like that exists, but they are not much...
I am not saying that Tectoy or whatever suck or anything, mind you, I am saying that this idea has flaws that might take it down, altough the idea is not bad, the console is too expensive, a GP2X has the same power and the same price, but with a clear diffrence: It is portable, and the games are mostly free... That certainly is cheaper than your idea... Also, the games avaible are mostly mobile ports, and I am yet to see really great mobile games, there are some, but they are not based on BREW I think. (in fact I dislike the BREW thing, altough in theory you can sell your games directly contacting Zeebo Inc, there are the problem that they must be done using BREW seemly, and that means that you need Qualcomm permission and whatever...) |
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| André Pequeno |
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The price of the games on Zeebo is OK. But on the PS2 the people in Brazil just go on piracy. Free games. LOL.
Or not. Well, PS2 is an old console and its games, actually, has good prices here. You said that official PS2 games costs about 50 to 80 dollars in Brazil, but you are just wrong. You can easily find PS2 games for 20 to 30 dollars here. And I'm not talking about pre-played games, but new ones. You work with games in Brazil and just don't what is happing on the market here. That's the other problem with brazilian companies. LOL. And this kind of price really works here. PC games here sells relatively well with prices that goes from 20 dollars to 50. And about quality...Comparing PS2 games with celular games on Zeebo... Well... No comments about it. So, for all circumstances, PS2 is still a better option. And there is the option of to buy a DS, that has piracy and costs almost the same of Zeebo. I think that the Zeebo is a good concept, the price of its games is OK too. But the price of the console itself is surreal. Is should be something about 130 dollars (300 reais). It would be a big hit with this price. But 217 dollars is too much... Gamers won't buy Zeebo because its too simple e too expensive. And families will prefer to buy most affordable consoles like NES clones or that remake of Sega Genesis that cames with almost 100 games (its from Tectoy too). |
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| Maurício Gomes |
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Since Andre pointed that there are cheap PS2 games here, I like to point that I saw King of Fighers and several other games in a store called "Americanas" for 20 USD. Just to confirm his point.
Also, maybe if Zeebo had custom 2D optmized hardware (it has? I do not discovered yet) with that specs, THEN it could stand a chance, since a 2D hardware is that specs would be able to do some really cool things. |
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| Samuel Chan |
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This is very interesting news, as a developer with a huge Brazillian userbase. I will be paying close attention to this system.
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| Luiz Alberto Pires |
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Too late...
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| Mike Lopez |
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It will be the Atari Jaguar of Latin America.
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| Nicolas Casanova |
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I like the idea of Zeebo but as a mexican living in Mexico I know a lot of people is afraid of online shopping, it's only among medium to rich class that this practice is somewhat common. Sounds to me Zeebo will be focused on marketing to people who don't have 400 dollars to purchase a Wii or an Xbox360 and of course don't even have credit card.
I may be wrong but if this is the case, BREW will have to change the way they will be getting money. There is another console or at least it is in plans that you just insert any pc game and you can play it on your TV, I'd like something like that better plus the feature of playing flash games, that combined with Zeebo would be a must buy for me. |
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| John Peterson |
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It's all going to depend on pricing. If you can pick the console up for the equivalent of $100 US and the games run the $5-$20 range, in a lot of the countries they are launching in, this could become the system of choice.
Once they start dropping it in places like the US, the marketing has to change. If they push the hobbyist development angle real hard and keep the pricing down, they might pull this off. |
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| Maurcio Wagner |
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Bruno, since you work for Tectoy Digital, maybe you can anwer this. I know the Zeebo SDK is free to download after registering with the company, but from what I've read you also need additional applications that are either not free or not yet available for download. Is that true? The CEO says he can see Zeebo being like an iPhone with its apps, but is Qualcomm really going to make its SDK and the development process that open for just anybody? How would the independent games be certified?
To me Zeebo really seems like a cell phone that can't make calls and isn't even portable. Why would someone not buy a hacked DS, PSP, PS2, a cheaper Tectoy console, a newer cell phone, or one of the gaming clones? Why not save for a Wii? I really don't see what makes Zeebo stand out in the kind of market that Brazil has. I think it's not cheap enough for the poorer market and not "cool" enough for the gamer market. I've seen obvious undercover Tectoy people on Brazilian forums and they say things like how great it is that people won't need to get in their car or on the bus to go to a store anymore. Since I've left Brazil has it really got that hard to go to stores? I don't really see why that's a big selling point unless the company thinks we're all going to be living like the people in Wall-E soon. I like downloading games sometimes but it really doesn't kill me to go out to buy a game because I'm already out doing something else anyway. I respect Reinaldo Normand, who is the guy that created the Zeebo idea and that is kind of known with Brazilian gamers, but I think it's a case you hear a lot about someone who is so into something that he creates the product for himself and based on what he likes and thinks is cool instead of what the people really want. |
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| Jesse Watson |
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So we finally have a successor to the Sega Master System in Brazil. :)
In truth, though, it's easy to see why something like the Sega Master System thrives in such an economic climate. I have to wonder what our games would be like today (in the US, Europe and Japan) if we'd stayed locked into hardware generations longer instead of always moving (often far too quickly) into the newest, fanciest systems (that no one can develop for and budgets won't allow, even in rich countries like the US and Japan). |
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