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Miyamoto On Nintendo's Trend Bucking, Special Perspective
Miyamoto On Nintendo's Trend Bucking, Special Perspective Exclusive
October 16, 2009 | By Leigh Alexander

October 16, 2009 | By Leigh Alexander
More: Console/PC, Exclusive

Nintendo's particular approach to innovation often seems on the surface to fly in the face of widely-popular trends.

For example, the Wii's motion controls were met with bemusement from the traditional market at first -- only to become perhaps the era's most significant development in the mainstreaming of video games. Now the core consoles are playing catch-up.

And these days, when everything must be multiplayer, social and networked, Nintendo's New Super Mario Bros. Wii, the most multiplayer-focused Mario yet, focuses solely on living room local play, thanks to the vision of legendary designer Shigeru Miyamoto.

At a roundtable in New York yesterday, attended by press outlets including Gamasutra, Miyamoto was asked for his opinion on many prevailing industry trends, and his answers helped illuminate a company that often surprises, and is always an individual.

No Achievements? No Leaderboards?

Miyamoto was nonplussed when asked why Nintendo games have also generally decided to take a pass on the explosive trend of social features like leaderboards and online achievements.

"I'm not particularly well versed in the Xbox 360 achievement system," the designer admitted. "I spend most of my time working on my own games, and don't have a lot of time to look at what other people are doing."

But as far as the meat of an achievements system -- gaining rewards for accomplishing extra tasks -- Miyamoto says it's something he's always done. "The idea of playing the game in a particular way and having it unlock a special prize that rewards you... it feels like something we've been doing for the last 15-20 years," he said.

The doesn't mean Nintendo is disinterested in further developing internet-connected experiences, Miyamoto said: "We do have an interest in doing things that take advantage of networked devices."

"We could've made an online multiplayer Mario game... but the effort and resources you devote to putting a game like that on line will then result in you balancing out the resources [and sacrificing] something somewhere else in the game," he added.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii is oriented specifically around the face-to-face experience -- "That being said, in the future there is definitely the possibility for exploring what can be done with more remote connected gameplay," Miyamoto said.

No Digital Distro Rush?

The simplicity of New Super Mario Bros. Wii gives it an updated old-school feel, and on either rival console, such a game would perhaps be a good candidate for release as a digital download.

But not only is Nintendo going strictly for the disc-based route, it's joyfully embracing physical software with a special red box for the game -- the first red package ever for a Wii game, for which the standard is always white.

"The business overall is still very much a package-based business," said Miyamoto. "I'm the kind of person who likes to have a physical object, rather than a digital product. I prefer to have something physical I can hold in my hand, particularly when it's a nice red package like this!"

No User-Generated Content?

Many reporters in attendance at Miyamoto's roundtable wanted to know when a Mario game would feature user-created content options, such as a level editor and the option to share and play creations online, given the prolific user-generated content trend and the success of LittleBigPlanet.

"It is an area that I have a lot of interest in," said Miyamoto. "I think the sidescrolling Mario games in particular are very well-suited to that type of idea... early on, we did have a lot of discussions about how to enable that type of level creation."

That was the impetus behind recent Flipnote Studio on DSi, he added. "I think that those types of interactive experiences are going to broaden, and we'll see a lot more user-generated content going forward," said Miyamoto. "I've always had an interest in those creative tools."

And What About That Help System?

Miyamoto also spent time demonstrating Nintendo's controversial "Super Guide" pop-up hint system for New Super Mario Bros Wii -- after eight deaths, the player has the option to turn on the feature that demonstrates solutions to the player in the form of a help video. Players can even be walked through a difficult level in its entirety, and continue from there.

It's not obligatory to use it, of course, and Miyamoto said the presence of the help system actually serves as an additional motivator for players who like a challenge. "If you die eight times in one level the Super Guide block appears... but I find if that happens, I feel guilty that I let that happen."

"I've already done this bad -- now I definitely have to clear this level on my own," the designer laughed. "And people who clear every level without ever having a hint block appear will get a special something on the title screen after they've finished."

The Super Guide never shows the way to secrets, bonuses and collectibles, and players who gather all of those are rewarded, too. One highlight of the demonstration day yesterday was getting to see the special bonus videos users can unlock when they gather Star Coins.

Developed by the game's testers, they show feats of highly-skilled playthroughs, like making it through a whole level without ever touching the ground, or two buddies tandem-tossing a third player through the entirety of a level -- while still ensuring that third player collects all the level's rewards.

With such a feature, gameplay demonstration videos that the hardest-core players might have dismissed as hand-holding actually serve the purpose of tickling the imagination -- it's easy to imagine users creating and uploading their own gameplay feats via YouTube.

Nintendo's stubborn tendency to pave its own road despite what trends the market favors may puzzle traditional consumers from time to time, but the result is often a sense that virtuosos like Miyamoto know things the rest of the world doesn't. This uniqueness is perhaps the biggest factor that's enabled Nintendo to quietly steal this console generation -- and in many ways, pave the path for the next one.

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Joshua Sterns
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Reading articles like this make me realize that no matter how much innovation a video game company produces there will always be room for more.

I also like Miyamoto's comment about achievements. "The idea of playing the game in a particular way and having it unlock a special prize that rewards you... it feels like something we've been doing for the last 15-20 years." He's right on the money.

Alexander Bruce
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I much prefer games that give you "rewards" within the game for playing them, as opposed to achievements.

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I think the achievement thing is a little out of place, or has a negative impact on something that could be positive. It would be different if an achievement unlocked a new play mode or some way to purchase extra content, there would then be a reason to do or finish the said task. This is not the case though, achievements have become little more than just a collection of bronze trophies that have little or next to no meaning other than to say you learned a level or killed 1000 soldiers with a weapon of some kind. It's a badge with no real purpose.

Daniel Felice
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Achievements and in-game bonuses aren't mutually exclusive.

James Botterill
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I think his comments as always are insightful and well thought out. I imagine an some very interesting conversations which occur behind the doors during the development cycle which go through the merits for doing anything, that something which outsiders seem as odd/off the wall have all been discussed debated and well thought out in advance.

I generally agree with him on all accounts, I personally have enough reward from completing a boss or a tough section in a game without some meaningless achievement telling me I've done something worth a certain amount of Gamer Points or whatever.

Brandon Sheffield
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I hope that miyamoto's statement is a fib: "I'm not particularly well versed in the Xbox 360 achievement system," the designer admitted. "I spend most of my time working on my own games, and don't have a lot of time to look at what other people are doing."

Because not looking at what others offer is a surefire way to become stagnant...unless you're really not trying to make a game, but rather a service. I find it slightly hard to believe that he would really ignore what's going on in the game world around him though. It might explain the bash-you-over-the-head tutorials though.

Mark Venturelli
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I laugh at "game designers" who think Miyamoto is stupid before even seeing his work. Listening to him talk about design always teaches me something.

Doug Poston
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@brandon: Miyamoto is the Chuck Norris of game design.

He doesn't have to look at what other people are doing. :)

ray G
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@Mark Ventureli

The dudes human like all of us, people act like the next thing he makes is better then the last. Fanboys, moms and dads and grandmas are his new audience. Miya san has not been able to live up to ocarina of time and the biggest thing that bothers me, that instead of working on new IP(like Pikman*which I am not to fond of*) he re-hash's old IP's with a slight twist. I dont care how much he has sold. you take a look at his track record and show me how much mario is in it.

Miyamoto peaked with Zelda on the N64. Everything he has worked on since has not had that much pull or awe after. That new Mario Brothers game on the Wii, 2 player action with different abilities, that's been done already. You could remove the fact that it was Mario and just have a wire frame and then you could really see just how "great" it is.

You want to see some one take the online concept by the horns? look at Segas Ex star designer, Yuji Naka. he really did what we all dreamed of as kids. make a character at home and go adventure with your friends. The quality and work that went into Phantasy Star Online was a milestone in online gaming. this was almost decade ago.

Yokai Gunpei really broke outa the box, but many don't remember him. that is Nintendo true innovative unsung Hero(god rest his soul)

You want to learn something about true innovation and thinking outside the box

Look at Naka san(miyamoto always wanted a one button game"least amount of buttons") He created "Lets tap"

hands free game. he has exploited the wiimotes latent capabilities more so then anyone at Nintendo.

look at Fumito ueda and what he has done with in three games that he has made, Shadow of the Colosus, Ico and Last gaudiness.

Those are people who really setting the new benchmark.

ima go, grab a mushroom and jump on a turtle with my freind, please!

William Armstrong
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Miyamoto's comments regarding Achievements are dead on; the game itself should be the reward, not some arbitrary carrot on a stick, who's only purpose is to inflate a player's gamer score (and thus, their ego). There is no reward other than social bragging rights attached to achievement systems.

Viewed in this way, the entire system seems to be quite counter-intuitive; it's much more social to say "Oh, but did you find the hidden room in Level 2?!" than to say "I have 200 achievement points, beat that!"

Never mind that any surprises players may earn an achievement for can be quickly surmised by checking out the readily available list. What good are hidden features when the player knows that they are in advance?

Brandon Sheffield
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Fair enough Doug! I think he's probably one of the only ones we can say that about though. The rest of us benefit from points of reference.

Mark - what game designer could have missed Miyamoto's work? I don't really see how it's possible, except maaaaaybe in the web space, where people sometimes come from a service or design background, and hadn't played games previously.

Mike Siciliano
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"Fanboys, moms and dads and grandmas are his new audience."

What is this statement even supposed to mean?

You think the NES and the original Super Mario Bros. didn't appeal to moms, dads and grandmas?

"Miya san has not been able to live up to ocarina of time and the biggest thing that bothers me, that instead of working on new IP(like Pikman*which I am not to fond of*) he re-hash's old IP's with a slight twist."

"I dont care how much he has sold."

Well that's strange, because you can gauge a game's success rate by its sales.

"Miyamoto peaked with Zelda on the N64."

I disagree. I say the new peak has been Super Mario Galaxy.

"That new Mario Brothers game on the Wii, 2 player action with different abilities, that's been done already."

4-player Mario has been done before? Really? Can I see it then?

What? No credit for new IPs such as Wii Sports, Wii Fit and Wii Music?

ray G
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wiisports( u mean what should have been a pack in?)

Mario galaxies did not have that much of an impact as Super Mario 64, polished and crisp??sure I can give it that but to say its new and innovative, no way. Some new features dont justify the whole game being innovative.

it was Mario 64 with out all the muddy textures.

When I talk about an old crowd that made the nes what it was, it was the gamers who owned not just the packed in mario, the main consumer where people who owned along with mario, megaman, castlevania,contra final fantasy. yeah because we know our parents rave and cant let those old memories go.

wiifits gimickie ass broke joke made for the none gamer, the new Wii sports resort is not even 1 to 1 like promised. even then, that was no where near as fun or memorable as Zelda. You ever heard of power Stone 2, remember the scrolling stages with abilities and items you get?? I do but most Nintendo fanboys wouldn't. it displays key gaming elements that made other games already. gunstar and its grab system in co op.

i can set the scrolling platoforming stages of power stone and point out similarities that made that gameply key.

We all know who nintendos key market is now. that idea was never tacked on out of thin air.

sales dont always make a good game. You ever heard of a "trend" Gta series on the PS2 sold extremely well and Sa Andreas got number 1 sales slot, even in japan. That game is a piece of garbage in every aspect, wait no!! because it sold well and was number one on charts for the year , it really was better then everything else.

the masses will always settle for "fast cheap and easy!" mcdonalds sells extremely well and is better then any other burger joint becuase of there 99 cent crap everyone buys. forget about anything with real substance. its not good becuase we haven't heard about it...pleazeee

take off the nintendo goggles...the true ninendo innovator died years ago working for SNK

ray G
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"You think the NES and the original Super Mario Bros. didn't appeal to moms, dads and grandmas?"

WHAT COUNTRY U LIVE IN.up until recently all I heard grandparents talk about things that amuse them or that they liked, it wasn't video games, something i am sure they have a great grasp on <<.

you know what had appealed to most senior citizens, medical insurance and affordable meds, not some cartoon plumber.

All sarcasm aside

We can clearly see its more popular now for old folks who cant leave the house.

Fábio Bernardon
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Is it just me or other people has trouble to understand what Vics type? Please, learn how to spell words.

Also, for me and I believe for the majority of people out there, someone that gives no credit to Miyamoto has no credit in itself. Cite only one person that has created as many franchises as he did, has so many million seller games in his curriculum. Miyamoto has never developed a bad game (though not all of them are incredible).

Not everything that is popular is good, not everything that is niche is bad. But Miyamoto is thoroughly recognized as a brilliant mind in this industry, and the opinion of few people will not change that. That guy IS the best when it comes to design a video game.

ray G
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best is always subjective.

I never said he was a bad dev,I have respect for the man but my personal openion, I truly think he is overrated and still has not topped Ocarina.I will not ride the Shigeru band wagon.

Mike Siciliano
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The only thing stupid is thinking that customers are stupid, and you think Wii customers are stupid.

Saying Super Mario Galaxy is merely a Super Mario 64 without "muddy textures" is simply wrong. Super Mario 64 doesn't haven't the same levels, gravitational effects, pull stars, etc.

It seems to me you might be fascinated with trying to be counter-culture. But just because you don't like Wii Fit (have you even played it?) doesn't mean it's not innovative.

ray G
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What? I am counter culture just because I don't enjoy his new stuff and think Wiifit is not that innovative?

And yes I played enough of Mario galaxies to realize its not that ground breaking and furthermore motion activated fireballs are FAIL! Sure the game has new things like gravity but that's not new to the genre. In my eyes he is just overrated. He didn't make Shadow of the Colossus and certainly hasn't pushed the wiimote like other devs outside of Nintendo. He makes good games but not the greatest. galaxies is a good game but it did not have that new feeling like mario64 did, mainly because it was like the 2nd or third platformer to come out at the time in 3d.

you act like anyone cant say anything negative about the guy with out anytruth whats so ever. Take off the Nintendo goggles please.

Mike Siciliano
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"He didn't make Shadow of the Colossus and certainly hasn't pushed the wiimote like other devs outside of Nintendo."

I'm sorry, but I don't see any support for this logic. No one has pushed better standard Wii remote implementation than Nintendo did with Wii Sports. It wasn't until Motion Plus that any developers outside Nintendo really used the controller to more of its full potential.

"Take off the Nintendo goggles please."

See now, baseless insults like this don't help your arguments. You keep harping on Shadow of the Colossus, but whether Miyamoto made that game or not doesn't have any relevance to whether he's innovative. Besides, you're completely ignoring and dismissing Wii Fit now.

I don't see any support or reasoning behind your arguments. I just see plenty of "he's not that good" arguments.

ray G
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Ugh, isn't Nintendo suppose to push the wiimote more then anyone else? you are suppose to try and make the best so everyone can make better?? Nintendo did try their best but wii sports just dose not cut it. Everything interesting I have seen them do with the wiimote has been done already to one degree or another almost a decade ago.

My argument makes plenty sense, Miya san in my eyes is over rated, see? its very very simple, TO ME HE IS NOT THAT GOOD AS FANBOYS MAKE HIM OUT TO BE. It really is simple. The guy made great games back in the day but now he cant captivate and drop our jaws like he use to. Wiifit and wii music drops nada, in fact Didn't wiimusic fail miserably??

I say that because mostly nintendo fan boys are the ones who cant take and except the fact that there are Designers out there who have outperformed Miya in this day in age and can make "jaw dropping" games.

Wiifit?? I don't need a game to tell me about my health or measure anything. Your talking about that heart pounding experience where you sit very very very still and wait, and wait?? yeah its so heart pumping I cant handle it.

this one right?? yeah man this truly an amazing experience.

look, I don't want to get on anyone bad side here, sorry for any name calling or bad vibes, but the guy just lost it from what I saw. I like devs who really really think outside the box and can drop jaws.

and about pushing the wiimote more then nintendo, you are so so wrong my friend!

making a game that uses all the obvious uses of handle based items we are familiar with ,is not that impressive at all.

However! making a game that utilizes just the inner inner sensitivity mechanism and completely hands free, is something NO ONE SAW COMING OR CAN CLAIM, other then Naka san. And last I checked Naka never was employed by Nintendo. That is OUTSIDE the box thinking, pun intended!

James Botterill
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To quote Barney Franks ""Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it!"

Anyone with any reasonable knowledge of gaming history would argue that the wii is an culmination of Nintendo's 20 plus years work in games industry. You could further argue that gaming wouldn't be where it is today without the work of Miyamoto and it's his talent and commitment to the industry today he continues in trying to expand the medium to embraces greater audiences that will ensure the industries growth for many years to come.

ray G
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this dining room table is 30 and the nes was my 2nd system. I currently own a great portion of the systems released and some of their best titles in the eastern and western markets since 1986 and work in the game industry to one degree or another. Its stupid to say that the reason we come this far is because of this man, that dumbest shit I ever heard not to mention an insult to me and other designers who feel the same way I do. If Miya was never there someone greater or worse would have come along.

"Anyone with any reasonable knowledge of gaming history"

I can honestly say, that is the reason why I chose not to sit in Miya bandwagon and lie to myself that stomping on turtles never gets old, or using a Dreamcast fishing rod with tacked on sensors is the greatest thing.

"gaming wouldn't be where it is today without the work of Miyamoto"

Now that I think about it, it really is inconsiderate, insulting and retarded to say that with out Miyamoto I could never make the games I have worked on or my buddies cant be great with out him, so none of us have the potential to be who we are or better with out this man. THAT IS STUPID! The two people I idolize and learned from hold respect but little regard for Miya. I know there work is great to me and Miya had nothing to do with it.

Yokai Gunpei did a hell of a lot more for the industry then miya. Do your homework and look up that name.

Maurício Gomes
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I love fanboy fights.

Ken Masters
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@ Ray G -

Please try to have a civil argument without building strawmen and spewing misinformation. Most of your points hold no water, as the others have already pointed out.

ray G
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@Ken Masters

Yeah because we all need Miyamoto in our life to come up with great ideas and to progress with modern gaming. I am sure that my point of views hold absolutely no water at all. I feel sorry for anyone who depends on such an idea.

Mike Siciliano
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"I love fanboy fights."

I don't see much of a fanboy fight going on. I think that Miyamoto is very innovative and responsible for much of the direction this industry has taken since the early '80s. I think many people would agree with me too.

It's just that Vics, Ray... whatever his name is, disagrees.

Roberto Alfonso
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@brandon sheffield: I remember Miyamoto stating he admired Will Wright and SimCity. It is not that he doesn't check what others do, it is just that he got his own style of doing things (which has worked for almost 30 years) and I doubt he will just change.

ray G
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"I love fanboy fights."

he says that because only in fanboys eyes miyamoto can do no wrong and be the only soul reason GREAT games exist.

Ken Masters
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I don't think anyone is saying Miyamoto can do no wrong. Everyone here has been very reasonable and have only admired his body of work - and that seems to really, really bother you...

Daniel Piers
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GTA: San Andreas (PS2): 95 (
dreas )

Sorry, ray G, but the collective society of game players and reviewers does not share your opinion that GTA: SA is "a piece of garbage in every aspect".

Out of curiosity, are there any western developers you like? You listed several people, but it seems like they are all from Japan.

ray G
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@Daniel Piers

Western Devs?

Microsoft studios and some of their flight sims . I like some of the devs over at Valve, not to many out here but I will say a lot of them are pumping out quality work these days, just not my taste. I also like Ubisoft, the teams behind Rainbow six/Ghost recon but i think there Euro team or Canada.

my problem with GTA is, the way its handled. I personally dont like the way every GTA after the 1st on the PS2 was a 2.o game. the mechanics were slapped on and that's ok for the 1st but there was no refinement later on. I was disgusted at just how poor clunky airplanes operate. Not that I want realistic mechanics, but something actually well done. for example, sky Gunner on the PS2, not a real flying game at all, very whimsical but fun to Handel.

the INITIAL charm of GTA was go anywhere! I would have loved to see less map and deeper gameplay.

Seriously, how well dose GTA on ps2 hold up now, can anyone really go back to it??

I can still go back to rockman 2 and enjoy it and not all due to nostalgia but solid AAA game.

The masses will always tell you McDonalds is the best and it sell billions to prove it. but I learned there are plenty of places that make things with a more refined approach and it shows.

Joseph L. Blackwell, Jr.
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"The business overall is still very much a package-based business," said Miyamoto. "I'm the kind of person who likes to have a physical object, rather than a digital product. I prefer to have something physical I can hold in my hand..."

I could not agree more! I prefer a packaged-based (physical) game versus some digital file and I hope Nintendo keeps it that way for their next-gen console and handheld.

gstarr W
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@ anyone who bothers to respond or be bothered by anything Ray G posts:

Some people are too stupid do appreciate genius when they are experiencing it. Some people are too conceited and narrow-minded to realize the impact that such geniuses have had on their life, the lives of others, and the lives of even those who are creating the very art/product/technology that the stupid one is currently enjoying. Every creative talent has their "great work". It will never be surpassed. Every creative talent reaches it's zenith. But, visionaries even when they are not at their zenith, still soar above the rest most of the time. Do they have failures? Yes. That's why they reach the heights that they do. They are not afraid to fail. They learn from the experience and use it to soar higher.

@ Ray G - the Wright brothers suck cuz they never flew higher than they did at Kitty Hawk, George Washington sucks cuz he never fought a bigger war than the Revolutionary War. Michael Jackson sucks cuz he never sold more copies of an album than Thriller. Michael Angelo sucks cuz he never painted a better church than the Sistine Chapel. Albert Einstein sucks cuz he never came up with a better theory than the theory of relativity. Bill Gates sucks cuz he has never created a bigger company than Microsoft.

Shut up!

You are a pompous fool. I shall waste no more of my time on your insolent and insipid comments.

ray G
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Hey idiot!, did I ever say he sucks?? I just don't think he that great. Get your shit straight! and no I don't see him as genius at all and shouldn't. I have some standards he has not met, then that's my opinion of what "great" is. Its like your stupid asses are trying to tell me, hold this in high regard because we do. Fuck all of you I can like and respect whatever I want. Miyas shit dose not appeal to me anymore and only did for a small amount of time. If that's the way I feel why should I change it for any of you tools?

I can just see all you fu*&^ nerds pointing fingers"y' yu' yu' your wrong, everything great in gaming is because of him" That's really what I get from you guys.

Its cool you all think hes great n' all and unlike u asses, I can respect that, its what you guys like, cool. Guess what, I don't like eggs , I don't think Evangelion was that great and certainly don't think Miya was either.

I have the right to like some things more then others

I have the right to appreciate things in a different manner

I have a right to think some one is not that great.

Nobody here is anyone to tell me who or what is great to me. Almost like a damn church in here.

Mark Venturelli
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"Innovation" is such a Holy Grail. Like you said, if you remove Mario and use a wireframe you will see that Miyamoto does amazing design, most of it existing in a realm beyond your awareness.

David Wesley
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RE: "Nintendo's stubborn tendency to pave its own road despite what trends the market favors may puzzle traditional consumers from time to time, but the result is often a sense that virtuosos like Miyamoto know things the rest of the world doesn't. This uniqueness is perhaps the biggest factor that's enabled Nintendo to quietly steal this console generation -- and in many ways, pave the path for the next one."

No one doubts Miyamoto's genius. He has done more for the video game industry than perhaps any other individual. However, nobody is perfect and "Nintendo's stubborn tendency" has cost the company dearly in the past. It not only missed the shift to disc-based media, it almost killed the Mario franchise in the early 1990s by licensing Mario to too many companies. Nintendo also failed miserably in its attempt to penetrate online gaming. The list of mistakes goes on. Nintendo will need to work as hard as anyone if it hopes to maintain its lead.

ray G
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@Mark Venturelli

He is not a bad designer at all and once again I have a level of respect for him, but I just don't think hes that great. When I did remove the textures from the wire-frame , Mario galaxies read to much Like the 64 version, its not a bad thing at all but when You have over 10 years gap like that and the difference is not that stark I cant credit it all that much. Sure its a good game and polished(almost anything will if you polish the same thing) Galaxies was Mario 64 with nick nacks everywhere. I have seen other franchises take a more dramatic approach to where the wire-frame gameplay has really evolved and feels more new with a bit of the old. Sure these other games also have flaws, but I love the whole "diving into something more"

Bryan Ma
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Despite the tone this conversation has taken on, I feel compelled to write that ray G does have some points I agree with, or can at least identify with.

One comment in particular - that Miyamoto peaked with Ocarina of Time - might be an uncommon viewpoint but certainly not unreasonable, especially for anyone that felt Mario Galaxy was even a LITTLE overrated (again a minority viewpoint, but one that I subscribe to).

The recent Wii Mario and Zelda games honestly made me feel that Nintendo had run out of things to do with these incredible franchises, only managing to expand slightly on these games that were revolutionary and game-changing ten years ago. Still great, highly polished games - but not game-changing; not new. How did Twilight Princess buck any conventions set by Ocarina of Time? The formula has been established and works incredibly well, but it adheres to the formula. I would put Wind Waker in a slightly different category as the truly open world nature of that game set it apart from any 3D Zelda game done to date - in fact in a lot of ways I enjoyed it more than Ocarina of Time (again, heresy, forgive me).

I don't think it is a bad thing at all to say Miyamoto peaked with the games of that era (1997-98) with Mario 64 and Ocarina. While maybe one might enjoy a later game more, it would be hard for me to argue that any of the games done since then have been as singularly impactful. The first (and arguably best) true 3D platformer, for goodness sake. How can you beat that? How can you reinvent the genre in a way as meaningful as that?? To say he peaked there... how can that be seen as a bad thing? What can possibly beat it?

ray G
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Wow, Bryan ma understands English.

Thank you sir, spoken like a true prodigy. I could not agree more.