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  American In China: McGee On Making It Work In Shanghai
by Christian Nutt [Business/Marketing, Design, Production, Interview]
12 comments Share on Twitter Share on Facebook RSS
 
 
January 22, 2010 Article Start Previous Page 5 of 5
 

You talked about how personal you are with all your employees, learning their stories and everything. Here's my question: the benefits of that are obvious, but I sat there wondering if you would have the same attitude if you were still an American developer in American development studio. Would you sit down and talk to everyone?

AM: I don't know, but I can tell you that part of what drove that when I got here was finally having the realization that I was out of my place. I was out of my comfort zone. I was really in a strange place. And realizing that what I was investing in was people, the people that are working inside the company.



That was the only thing that was going to work for me in China. And that's what started to drive me to really dig into the who and the what, the how and the why these people joined the company. I don't know. It just happened naturally.

I can say part of it was curiosity and fear that I don't necessarily know if I would have experienced in the States. Because in the States you kind of sense: "Look, I know who you are just by looking at you." But here, as a foreigner, you don't immediately pick up on who someone is by just looking at them.

That's what I was feeling. On one hand you have the cultural curiosity, coming here as an American, to get some insight, right? And also, in America, you're right. When you meet people you very quickly size someone up, I think.

AM: That's right.

Especially other gamers and other game industry people. You talk to them for five minutes and you think you know what they're about.

AM: That's right. I think that's a fallacy as well. We often times make that mistake about people, and that's something that I actually was learning back in the States. I was learning it in large part because a lot of people would make assumptions about me, who I was and what I was about. I tried to turn that around by getting to know people better.

By the I time I came out here, it really became a necessity, because you don't get those immediate cues, and you really have to spend more time to know people.

I find it interesting that you talked about how people expect you to have a whole bunch of slides about how to learn to work in China, and "Here's my breakdown of what you need to know." But your breakdown was more like, "Go live in China, and learn how to live in China, and you'll figure it out."

AM: Exactly. I don't think that the lessons I learned can be taught in a book, because it's a very individual, personal thing. I've seen people come out here that maybe last a month and they freak out. Their brain crashes and they have to flee, and run back home.

This came out of the early version of the talk because I was thinking I was going to highlight cultural differences. I was going to talk about the differences in the cognitive mechanics that go into why we decide to do act in certain ways. And some of the research I was doing in these books, the guys were talking about this. They had these formal scientific studies to back up why they could say that the thought processes were different between the two cultures.

But one of those books, as I was reading through it -- and I kept sensing that this wasn't the right thing to talk about -- one of the guys said that there was this study about Japanese people going to live in the U.S., and the U.S. people going to live in Japan, that said that after they've been there for some time they would take all the mannerisms and behaviors of those cultures. And when I read that, that's when I realized that's really the key.

And if you come out to China with a big long list of all of the things to watch out for and avoid and, "here's what you should expect from China," you've screwed it up right there, because you have all of these expectations on your list, in your pocket, and you're going to subscribe to that and be like, "Oh, he's behaving that way because of X."

When in fact when you sit down with him and say, "Are you being all quiet and not coming to work on time because this book says it's because of this?" And in fact he'll say, "No, actually my daughter is sick." Or, "No, actually that Western designer pissed me off, because he asked me to do something without following the process."

There's a story behind it all. And when you've got that list, it's an excuse to not ask what any of the questions about it are. That is why I was just, "Forget this. Throw it out the window."

 
Article Start Previous Page 5 of 5
 
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Comments

Clinton Keith
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Wow. Fantastic article!

Michal Strzelczyk
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Very interesting inteview!

Glenn Storm
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Okay. I have to admit, I began this article once before, got part way through and stopped, thinking, "Where's the cultural difference part? That's clearly the point that should be made." I'm glad to say I gave this another go and found the real point. Not: Western culture bad for process, Eastern culture good for process, but -- assumptions of process without effective communication and relatedness among the team -- bad for process. (Hope that's fair to say, even if just paraphrased in comment)



And yet, I will still quote this for truth:

"And so for [the culturally Western] type of a team, process is looked at like the enemy, right? People see process as a barrier to doing the John Wayne style of making games and owning something and just going off and doing it."



While I personally believe there is a culturally natural fit between lean development practices, tight-knit communication and a clearly broad generalization of the East, the interview manages to avoid that trapping and yet still finish neatly with, "Throw away [the typical Western expectations wrt people and process]." And I couldn't agree more.



If the Western development culture doesn't let go of the Hollywood-esque myth that [cue Don LaFontaine] "In a world of corporate culture that doesn't understand, one reluctant hero stands alone and against all odds to deliver us from evil", we're in big trouble.



Thank you!

phil carlisle
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Hmm, we did a fully destructable environment about 8 years back.



The reason "process" in the west is looked on as bad, is generally because it is imposed on the team rather than endorsed by them. I don't think anyone would disagree that being organised is good, but being TOLD how to organize can be harmful if the method of organisation is just some rigidly imposed structure.



It really just boils down to ego at the end of the day. Too many big ego's and teams tend to do poorly. Too few and teams tend to lack ambition. The right mix and the team can find its feet and learn a way to work. Having someone who is good at exciting the team about process is always useful.



I don't buy into the idea that western devs are all into that John Wayne thing. I think thats a very american way of thinking. That wasn't my experience, but of course I did see it happening. Nothing to do with culture so much as individual personality and insecurity.

Nathan Lee
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Good old American. Still selling himself as well as ever! If only half of what he says weren't outright lies (starting with the "absence of crunch time). He almost had me thinking he was running a charitable NGO when he mentioned he cuts his own salary, too, almost had a tear roll down my cheek! :) American, you talk about big devs abusing peoples' passion for the industry... how does you paying a british 1/4 of what he'd earn at home just because you are "giving him a unique opportunity to work in China as a game developer" not constitute the same kind of abuse? What's in it for them? A "developer's paradise"? Give me a break. Most of your staff doesn't even come from the industry. Unless of course you do pay them more, which is what I believe happens, if my sources are right. Either way, stop lying.



If you're doing so good and have so many people knocking at your door, why are your people constantly, desperately calling everyone in the Shanghai scene?



Stop boasting, McGee, and make something people actually care about (without your name at the front, you egomaniac, you're not Disney), then we'll talk.



And don't blame the failure of Grimm on GameTap, come on. The game had no polish whatsoever (and you still didn't manage to get a steady framerate on such simple geometry using Unreal!). No wonder you were hitting your milestones!



Was this a paid piece, or what?

Glenn Storm
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@phil: I would like to give you the opportunity to clear up two apparent contradictions I saw in your comment. If it "really just boils down to ego at the end of the day", does that not illustrate exactly the kind of dangers brought up by a John Wayne development mindset spoken about in this interview? And "some rigidly imposed structure" appears to me to be a pretty basic definition of organization, is it not? Perhaps there was an aspect of organization that you can further elaborate as a threat to development?



@Nathan: I am completely ignorant of the politics being alluded to in this comment, so I apologize up front. But, aside from quality of product, commercial success and critical acclaim, the subject that emerges from this interview framed around McGee's games made in China appears to be actually one of development practices and closer to development philosophy. In light of this, your comments are pretty far off topic, unless your aim was simply to discredit the subject of the article at its source. And taking a swipe at Gamasutra and staff in the process comes off as a bit tactless. /my $0.02

Yannick Boucher
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Hopefully he's just jabbing at McGee! Personally I don't have any doubt in Christian's writing. Now, that being said, in regards to philosophies and practices of development in China, I wish there'd be more about that on this site, as there's a whole bunch of people out there with perhaps lower profiles but whom I consider much more authoritative on the subject.

Reid Kimball
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Don't forget about Chronicles of Riddick. A fantastic game that Vin Diesel was involved quite a bit with I think.

phil carlisle
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Glenn: My point was that I don't think every game developer in the west is following the american (not McGee) style. Certainly my own experience was far more of a collective effort. I don't think ego has anything to do with organizational structure. But I think ego has a large effect on the perception of process. So an externally imposed process led by an egotist is my idea of hell, but a internally led culture of process definition and iteration led by someone who hasn't got an ego seems to me to be the ideal.

Glenn Storm
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phil: I agree. That clarifies your point for me. Thank you. Well said.

Jonathan Arsenault
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@Phil Carlisle

I can only picture working with McGee or Molyneux as the sixth layer of hell then...



@Nathan Lee

Mmm and there i was thinking i should brush up my communication skills specially toward being more tactful, weirdly i couldn't agree more about most of your point tho.

Brian Yu
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I have read quite a few articles with McGee before and every time he would throw out his wisdom left and right, some make sense but very obvious, some doenst and some is like wtf. May be I am old fashion but I think someone should walk the talk and have credit to back up his claims. How many years since he has been associated with a decent game? 10 yrs ago? He is at the same level as John Romero. Just keep talking the talk to sell himself and got nothing to proof...


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