TH: But the other thing is, that's what we do with them. That scene, we really try to listen to it. That's why we got to the, "Okay, what other games like this are there?" "Oh, no, there are more games like this than I thought." I'm still playing games like this, and I really like them.

The other thing is, when you get it, when you read your own forums and stuff, you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is just..." But then -- most people don't go look at other people's -- then you go to Blizzard's. Probably the most successful game maker there is.

Go to their forums. "These guys are TERRIBLE! What are they DOING?" That definitely puts it in perspective. But that doesn't mean that people don't have a point -- it's just how they're saying it.

Plus, you know, we've been doing it for a while. When we change an Elder Scrolls, whoa baby, you have --

That's true!

TH: You go from Daggerfall to Morrowind? I mean, that is a crazy change. And we got -- [makes noise of being strangled]. People forget. We went back to a lot of Daggerfall stuff with Oblivion, but now everybody who was playing Morrowind is like, "What are you DOING?" We can't win, you know?

That's a funny point, though, that you guys have a series that predates Fallout. And it predates Diablo, and all that.

TH: Yeah, and with, frankly, a much bigger fan base [than Fallout]. So, we're pretty used to it. And we're hoping that, hopefully after this game, Fallout will have an even bigger fan base.

Fallout's one of those weird cases, because probably the original base of people that played it was fairly small. I remember when it came out, and I was fully in the PC world -- completely-- but not everyone was. It's probably gained a lot through the mythic nature of it.

TH: It's true, actually. You know, the number of people who actually played it in '97 -- we got it all, when we wanted to make the game, and we went after the license. Like, "Nothing's happening with it, and we really want to make this," and the answer I was given was, "Well... Here's what it sold. Plus it's 10 years old."

Do you remember the numbers, off the top of your head?

TH: I do not. "Here's what it sold, and it's 10 years old. No one really cares that much anymore." And that was the appraisal [given to me]. And I'm like, "Well that's not the fault of the game! It's awesome!" Right? It's just, they didn't do anything with it.

It felt like, "Look, the pool of people who love that game are a lot of the press guys, and developers, and people who spread the word. They're at the top of the tower, and that trickles down."

And you, of course, have been part of that group for years.

TH: Exactly. So, you know, if we do this, and do it really well, the word will get out, and at least that part's going right. We'll see how the game ends up. But the word is out, and people want to see it; I definitely think we're good there.