You talked about how you guys had similar but varied backgrounds. When it comes to getting people into the studio, how much of it is a question of temperament, and how much of it is a question of similar taste, or inspiration?
KL: We look at people who are going to come in and understand what kind of games we're making -- love the kind of games we're making. We really like to hire gamers. We really like to hire people who have a love for the thing they're making.
Honestly, if it's just a job, and you could go be doing programming databases for Morgan Stanley? This is really not the right place for you. There has to be a love. There has to be a passion, like, "I've got to make games; I've got to be doing this thing that I'm doing", or it's probably not going to be a very good job for you.
We have a pretty stringent hiring process. We do extensive phone screens, followed by flying people out to do day-long interviews with people, and then follow-ups after that, because we have to. We've had a culture for, I don't know... well, we're 13 years old now, and maintaining the culture is done two ways.
One is by -- a lot of the people have been here the whole time. I mean, many people working on System Shock 2 with me are still here with me. Pretty much everybody that worked on BioShock is here. And so, you maintain the culture by having that consistency of people; that's the most important thing.
But you also maintain the culture by making sure the people you hire have the -- as you said -- the temperament. Do they view the work as something that's important to their lives, central to their lives? Do they want to do something different? Do they want to do something important in the game space? Do they want to come to a place where there's going to be people around them they can learn from and teach things to?
Because that's how you get the most value out of adding an employee. It's not just the work they do, but they're going to improve other employees around them by being able to tech them stuff, and they're going to learn from the other employees around them.
RO: One of the things that we've done here at the studio, to help acclimate new people, is we've actually developed a form of mentor program. So anyone that we hire gets paired up with someone who's been here at least a year, and this person serves as your private wingman.
They take you around, introduce you to the team, or bring you out to lunch, and that's just one way we've made strides toward making sure that people get acclimated sooner rather than later.
KL: Our hiring procedure used to be a little more ad-hoc before, where we'd just bring people in. And we had a really good sense for hiring the right people. But I think in the last year, Ryan and Stephanie have done a great job of an actual formal process to acclimate people here. Because we're trying to keep a culture of, "Hey, we're a bunch of guys making cool games. Are you one of those guys? Come along!"
But not have it like -- I remember my first day in the games industry. I showed up, there was no desk for me, there was no computer for me, at the first company I worked at, and I ended up just going to a movie.
KL: I left, and just went to a movie. Because after two days, there's nobody that'd talk to me, or anything like that. And we were never like that, but I think what we really try to do is get to the state of the art for bringing people in, and not just having a desk but having somebody there with you that can answer your questions.
When you're moving into production on a project -- and maybe it's not that big of an issue because you say you have a high retention rate, but -- if you're expanding your studio, you have to hire quickly, but hiring the right people quickly has got to be a major challenge. So, how do you approach that?
KL: I think there's no magic formula there. I think that when we think about a project now... When we thought about this project, we accounted for the fact that hiring the staff that we needed to hire would take some time.
And when we thought about the shipping date of the project... We needed a certain kind of length for the title, because we had a scope and ambition in mind which is more ambitious than anything we've ever done. Even more, substantially more ambitious than BioShock. And we knew that was not going to happen overnight.
You see that as a catastrophe that happens to a lot of companies. You do one of two things now. Either you have companies that hire a bunch of people, and you hire the wrong people, and you try to do it quickly, or you say, "Well, we're just going to do a ton of outsourcing." And you can do some outsourcing, but it's not an organic process, really, to just find studios in China that you've never worked with before, and you don't have a corporate connection to.
You can do something, let's say certain art -- art resources that you can do stuff like that with, in terms of, if you have a good piece of concept art. But really, the best way to make great games is to have a large group of people, many of whom have worked together for many years, who can then incorporate new people at a reasonable pace, so they can come into the company and be properly...
KL: Infused. Yeah, I was going to say "ingested," but that was a little... a little more...
JM: It takes time for great people to embed in. To coalesce.
KL: Not ingest. I'll say "coalesce" instead of "ingest". Because that sounds creepily disgusting.
KL: But it takes time. And we work that into the schedule. And we certainly had to make the case to powers that be that, "Hey, one of the reasons that this product is going to take this long is because we need to build a team at the right pace."