
| Matt Robb |
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Sounds largely to me like Nintendo created a bubble of sorts by attracting so many "casual" gamers with the Wii and DS. Then as the cell phones started their aforementioned boom in late 2008, they sucked a large number of people out of that Nintendo bubble. Because of that seeming focus on the more casual market, the hardcore market shifted even more to the 360/PS3/PC during that same period (taking the 3rd party triple-A people with it) leaving Nintendo left with a loss on both ends.
The Mario/Zelda/Pokemon/Kirby/etc may have contributed to driving off other publishers, but they're also the only reason Nintendo is alive and (hopefully) thriving. |
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| Christian Keichel |
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"When people complain about mobile games, they tend to criticize the form for being littered with games designed to waste time, games designed to trick people out of their money, and mediocre, simplistic titles. This is, if you think about it, more or less what the majority of the games for the original DS were like.
The DS was an exceptionally popular system with an overwhelmingly large number of great games, and so it’s easy to think back to those when appraising it. But go to a GameStop and look over the shelves and you will see a huge variety of dreck, just like there was on the Wii, which was much more often criticized for this problem." There's a fundamental difference between 1 button games, buy more Smurf Berries games, Über-simple and Über-Ugly vertical WW2 shoot em Ups and buy-trading-card-to-win-games on one side and even the most mediocre Nintendo DS games. "Western publishers burst onto the 3DS with guns blazing and tons of titles" This leaves me more or less clueless, what games are you talking about? The western launch titles came from Ubisoft (4 titles), EA (1 title) and LucasArts (1 title), not what I would call "blazing and tons of titles", but besides EA and Ubisoft continue to develop 3DS titles and apart from Lego Star Wars, LucasArts was absent from Nintendo systems for years now. I don't understand the Konami/Castlevania argument you make at all, first you say: "Now, there’s clearly been a shift in the Castlevania series toward the Western arm of the comapny (which makes some sense, as the IP is much more popular here than in Japan.)" and a little bit later you say: "Why, then, is the 3DS title being developed in Spain, like Lords of Shadow was?" Sounds like a contradiction to me. Maybe it wasn't intended, but in the end, your article just is another "nintendo is doomed" story, because it contains all the elements needed for such a story (a) somebody in the industry on the top of a moderate success making wild predictios about Nintendo's failing in the future (b) some randomly picked data that is corelated in a way to suit the own argument (0 CoD for 3DS vs. 5 CoD for Nintendo DS, completely ignoring that the series never sold on the DS or complaining that the new Castlevania is developed in spain while "hardcore" fans love the japan based games) and (c) (most important for every good Nintendo is doomed story) the statement, that this isn't a Nintendo is doomed article. |
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| Russell Carroll |
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I think the revenue numbers are the key.
Right now top developers (Rovio for example) are reporting revenue across mobile (iOS + Android) that doesn't come close to what Nintendo sees on the 3DS (for example the Angry Birds franchise earned $70 million Net for Rovio across all platforms and skus last year whereas Mario 3D Land alone, in 6 months had Net in excess of $100 million for Nintendo). That's just one game! Those numbers alone suggest why Nintendo won't abandon dedicated for the phone market. Outside of Nintendo though the question isn't as clear, but there are some facts in the numbers. There are a lot of developers on iOS/Android. Most of them are losing money as there are simply too many games and too many developers (87K+ at last count). There is no question there are break-out hits or that it is easier to publish to mobile than to a console. As well, the ceiling on an iOS downloadable title is much, much higher than for a digital title on the dedicated handhelds. With larger developers, like Konami for example, who have marketing resources and brand loyalty, iOS is may be a better bet than the dedicated handheld market, but the equilibrium is certainly in flux, and at least for smaller developers, it may have already shifted back towards digital on dedicated handheld systems where, even if the numbers are smaller, due to the fact that there is dramatically less competition, the average game sees more unit sales (and at a higher price) than they do on iOS/Android. It's worth nothing that over 500 titles are being released on iOS every day. Assuming 1/2 of them are games that is 1750 new game titles each and every week! That glut of content is a problem that has grown into a real struggle for most of the developers I've spoken to. Getting more than a handful of downloads is a real challenge! Being one of a couple of titles on the 3DS or PSN in any given week provides a better likelihood of recouping dev costs even if it doesn't have the possibility of making millions if you have a hit. The market is in an interesting place, and is often the case, there is no one answer for everyone. A lot of what is best for you will be determined by your situation. |
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| Bob Johnson |
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This seems like the same article as before.
And yes the 3ds is and will be a 1st party machine but so was the DS. Nothing new. Might want to rethink this notion that companies will walk away because they have to make great games on the 3ds. Is there any platform where companies can come in and put their worst talent on low budget games and make a fortune? I just think, that for many of the types of games that are popular in the west, the DS and now the 3ds aren't ideal platforms for those games. And the dedicated handheld has never been a big core gamer platform in the west either afaik. Rockstar tried with GTA on the DS. It was a critic's darling afaik. Fairly well done by all accounts, but it didn't sell. That was 2009. That was the one game where a 3rd party went all out to make a great core game on the DS, but it still didn't do well. so is the audience on dedicated handhelds just not there for those games? Did the audience just not want a cartoony-overhead GTA game? Would the game had done better if it was released much earlier in the DS lifecycle before core gamers had given up on the DS for those types of games? Or is this type of game just not for dedicated handhelds in the west? So western 3rd parties perhaps need to adjust to the platform in order to be successful on the 3ds. Yes there is a threat from smartphones and the iPad and Touch, but as long as Nintendo makes great games and differentiates their hardware enough then they will have an audience. I don't think the 2 are mutually exclusive either. Everyone is eventually going to get a smartphone no matter what anyway because they need to communicate. Consumers were already buying fairly expensive cellphones before the iPHone came along. And they did play some games on them even. I don't think that just because you have a smartphone that a 3ds would suddenly become undesirable. Last let us not forget Nintendo's efforts in the digital storefront arena. The 3ds isn't just about carts. And there are inexpensive downloadable games on the system as well. |
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| Merc Hoffner |
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Multiple points here:
1) As I repeatedly say, what makes financial sense and what developers do are different things. The flocking away from one platform to another is not an indicator that one system is a better profit driver and the other one less. Not anymore anyway. 2) This is not a zero sum game - success of mobile does not necessarily equal failure or even necessarily reduction of handhelds - afterall, kids, who remain a very strong part of Nintendo's business, remain partially precluded from iOS - simply because they cannot own credit cards and can't all receive expensive smartphones and tablets. 3) Real world data for success levels on mobile platform is THIN on the ground. Revenue alone is an indicator of shockingly poor per unit performance, not to mention the disparity of success between top and 'bottom' sellers, or the sheer glut of products. iOS does not command the raw install numbers we see: between upgrades, multiple devices per account, non players and players who never pay, the active base is MUCH smaller. 4) Losing the chaff is no skin off Nintendo's nose - they hardly bolstered the system in sales, popularity, standing or competitiveness. 5) ABOVE ALL, contrary to popular belief, the NDS was NEVER supported in the West. For the first 5 years of its life the highest rater Western developed game on the platform was TONY HAWK'S AMERICAN SK8LAND! with a Metacritic rating of 84% - a launch title. You can't squeeze blood from a stone. You can't reduce support from nothing to less than nothing. 6) Failure of Vita may be prescient, but there is little actual evidence that Nintendo's business has been affected - though they are always called out. Patcher routinely references sales drops in DS numbers as evidence of handheld cannibalization - but he compares numbers in year 6 and 7 of the cycle - extraordinary for any platform in history. Comparing 2009 and early 2010 numbers (year 5 and 6 - already pushing it) Nintendo's business was unaffected by an already massive iOS market - it was Sony who was negatively affected. Initial stalling of 3DS sales were quantifiably driven by a misjudged pricepoint. It's now tracking as the fastest selling handheld in history - an obvious time for Nintendo and partners to lose out then. I accept the basic premise of the article - poorer simpler games see more opportunity on iOS than 3DS. I question whether this was ever a significant portion of Nintendo's business. I also accept that higher profile games would migrate away from Nintendo's platforms. I again question whether this is sensible, whether these games ever existed in any significant numbers - not for lack of opportunity as will (from the West at least - which is more or less what we're talking about here), and given the lack of such games being produced on the vastly successful Wii, whether it will affect Nintendo's business. This is a Nintendo is doomed article, if not a Nintendo is doomed to death piece. |
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| Leon T |
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IMO the 3DS started out with stronger third party support than the DS did and continues to have stronger support. Western third parties never gave strong support to handhelds, so the 3DS is not lacking anything there.
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| Joe Zachery |
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How about lets look at this from another angle. How can something like the Vita survive when it depends on 3rd parties. Nintendo has shown on both their home consoles ,and handhelds. They can survive in the gaming market earning major profits with out real 3rd party support. They have been doing it since the GBA, and N64.
One more thing Nintendo has never never had real western 3rd party support. That wasn't from their own western studios. So now thinking they really need them is a question by it's self. Once again Sony who Japanese support is next to nothing. Doesn't have any western support to balance out what they are not getting in Japan. Remember they need 3rd parties more than Nintendo do. |
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| Terry Reine |
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I think a lot of the thoughts here are incomplete. Looking at the pieces you can see some of the logic doesn't hold up.
The 1st argument is that on the DS there was a lot of dreck, and those publishers don't have a reason to return to the DS. Well the same theory applies to the mobile market. With so many new games a week being released the visiblity of individual titles and production levels are all down. The market is larger but I don't know if even it can handle so many games on a regular basis. Publisher making "dreck" will not survive long on any system. In addition you are neglecting the e-shop market. Which while not usually as low priced as the mobile market, has very low entry level cost like mobile but at least for now offers much better exposure to new titles. The Tamagotchi example mentioned in the article is really good example of the contradictions in the premise. On the one hand you show that this is an example of the dreck the was on the DS and state this is the kind of games that will disappear, and in the next sentence you talk about how they are already releasing a 2nd Tamagotchi game this year. Obviously the production costs weren't too high or they wouldn't have been able to afford the 2nd. The next statement is that many publishers or moving to mobile. I believe you are absolutely accurate here. With the great success of some of the early companies it is natural for them to want a piece of the pie. Just as they were interested in the social market over the last few years. Gaming companies have always had to ration their resources. The trouble here is with very few restrictions on releases the market is very similar to the atari market back in the early 80's. Too many games that are too similar will eventual cause many gamers to be disenchanted, and only those with the ability to get great visibility will survive. Meanwhile if Nintendo continues to improve their partnership with 3rd party developers and keeps their more measured pace of releases they will more likely ensure those that do get released are profitable. They have already demonstrated this with several of their 3rd party publishers in the e-shop. |
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| Justin LeGrande |
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This article makes me think about companies such as Atlus... how do they survive, as third parties, by shipping only a few copies of their games? Even a relatively small fanbase can support an operation, if resource allocation is efficiently handled.
Think back to the N64 and Gamecube generations... Nintendo's sector of the wider industry ecosystem was much more unattractive to third parties than it is now. The publishers and producers of the time must have had their reasons for supporting development for Nintendo systems, despite the risks. It would be interesting to hear more about the processes involved within the Nintendo environment, so commonly assailed as hostile. The gaming landscape has changed, but for third party titles on all platforms, prominent visibility is still a luxury, regardless of Nintendo's activities. |
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| tony oakden |
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Just had a look through my kids game library: Mario cart (1 and 7) mario galaxy, mario bros 1,2,3, nintendo dogs 1& 3ds, a bunch of zelda games, various Pokemon and Lego starwars. The only games the kids care about are mario galaxy and cart. As they get older they'll probably play more Pokemon and Zelda but I can't imagine they'll care much if third party developers stop bothering with the 3DS. But it has to be said they play a lot more games on IPad and PC than they do on 3DS
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| John Gordon |
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I do not understand how one moment the author can suggest that Nintendo is so awesome that no one would ever dare buy a third party game on the 3DS. And then another moment he suggests that Nintendo is so terrible that people are flocking to play mediocre games on the iPhone instead. There seems to be a logical disconnect there.
I would suggest the logical disconnect could be remedied with this idea, "smartphone gamers and 3DS gamers are mostly different groups". If a developer finds more success on the iPhone, then I say more power to them. It could be their game appeals more to adults, while the 3DS is selling mostly to kids in the US. But if the developer can make a good game that can appeal to kids (or to all ages), then I think they'll find more success on the 3DS. |
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