| Ian Bogost |
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Yes.
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| Zack Wood |
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Well, by meeting with him they could try to explain some of the things you're talking about. It's an opportunity to meet with the Vice President, after all.
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| E Zachary Knight |
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Thank you. The gall that Biden had in even including the games industry is detestable. The idea that someone(s) in the games industry have taken him up on the offer is equally detestable.
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| Thom Q |
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It's disgusting. Throw all academic research in the wind, and compare the games industry with the NRA..
What might be even sadder is that I have yet to hear any resistance from the bigger publishers or studios. The quick pleasing of the crowd is worth more to them then to properly inform people.. Then again, what else is new... |
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| Corvus Elrod |
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Of all the irresponsible...
Dropping out of the process is not the answer. We must be a part of the conversation if we're going to be a part of the culture. This notion that the only position to take is the most extreme is juvenile and a large part the problems our industry is facing in matters of diversity and cultural acceptance. |
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| Samuel Garcia |
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The issue and politics is actually more complicated than the article suggests. Yes, the NRA supports guns in schools, but what the article did not say is that it supports guns in hands of police officers in schools. And that is to say, when you look at the history of guns in schools outside the United States, particularly in the terror-laden Israel, the teachers are armed with guns, and the total mass shootings there totaled 4, and in the same time span, the United States with its weaponless schoolteachers had 28 mass shootings in schools. The statistics don't lie.
There is also three ways the meeting could end(at least that I could think of at the moment): 1. The government would strictly regulate the amount of guns/weapons/violence in games. People will object. 2. If the NRA is more pro-gun(actually, pro-violence not guns, there is a difference) influence than it actually is, then it will convince the government will actually not regulate the amount of guns/weapons/violence in games, and the public will still object. 3. Nothing happens, and people will still object. It is a lose-lose-lose situation for everybody involved. |
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| Corvus Elrod |
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Read my comment again. Did I say what you're suggesting I said? No, I said nothing like it.
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| Craig Stern |
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Great article!
...except for this bit: "It's our gun culture that breeds this fascination with firearms and the popularity of violent, shooty video games. It's not the other way around" Games do not exist in a hermetically sealed chamber, influenced by culture but not influencing culture. Rather, games are a part of culture. We influence the things people think about (see e.g. the Tetris Effect). It's a cop-out to claim that games never promote gun culture--and more to the point, it's so clearly false that I think it undermines our position to advance that as an argument. The better argument would go something like "Yes, some games feed into gun culture, but their influence is so attenuated that the free speech concerns involved far outweigh it." |
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| Casey Loe |
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I appreciate the sentiment, but refusing to meet with the Vice President would play right into the hands of the industry's opponents by making the game industry appear to be intransigent and suggest it's hiding something.
Additionally, I think there are small concessions the industry could make to cooperate with this process. For example, they could discourage the use of real gun brands in games, which is seen as a valuable marketing tool for gun manufacturers. A step like this would focus attention back on the gun industry, where it belongs. |
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| Lex Luthor |
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Wonder why there are not as many school shootings in Japan?
Don't they play these evil things from hell we call games too? |
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| Kumar Daryanani |
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Refusing to meet with the Vice President would allow anyone else at the meeting to simply point at the Games Industry and say "Oh look, they're not here, obviously they are the problem and they know it, that's why they can't show their face here", and then there would be no one to call out the BS and buck-pushing.
If the games industry is perceived to be part of the problem by some, then by being at the table to participate in the conversation it is possible to allay fears and explain our position. For one thing, we can point to all the other games that are not about shooting people in the face, and say "At least that's not the only thing we produce, unlike some other people at this table." |
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| Matthew Burns |
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Good article.
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| GameViewPoint Developer |
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My gut reaction was the same as the authors but on reflection, what's really happening here? what's happening here is "leaders" from a multi-billion dollar industry which regardless of studies one way or another obviously is a part of modern life and culture are meeting with the vice president to discuss the possible effects of their industry on that culture, and I don't see any issue with that. I'm not an American, but any input, any discussion, any debate which might even in the tiniest fashion help lower gun deaths in the States has got to be worth the effort.
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| Kujel Selsuru |
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Biden is probably looking for scapegoats sadly, it's an old political scam and sadly some of us are falling for it. Video game violence does not contribute to real world violence, ease of access to weapons does though.
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| Dan Eisenhower |
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There isn't a pattern of people committing mass shootings who are preoccupied with violent video games. There is a pattern of people who commit mass shootings doing so with guns....
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| Lyon Medina |
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I agree Kris that this sounds bad because its says to the American people that "Video Games" are "a problem".
As a Gamer I know how much that "statement" is a problem, I have played violent games my entire life, starting with Mortal Kombat for the Genesis, and I have never had a issue where people have said I was too violent. Maybe scatter brained, but never too violent. I think this needs to be focused to a campaign by us gamers to set the record straight, and if you look at it now gamers are starting to outweigh non gamers in terms of voice. We need to use that and help build Gaming as a respectful form of expression and entertainment |
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| Nicole Lazzaro |
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Lifting the Congressional ban on CDC and NIH research on how to reduce real world gun violence, in my mind would do more than anything. That said game designers are system thinkers, many are gun owners, and NRA members. We offer a unique perspective on what the government can do to reduce gun violence. To win, the conversation must be more than about the content of games.
I've posted 10 recommendations for VP Biden on my blog and offer a sample of the many heartfelt responses people inside and outside games have made. Take a look. It's your move. http://bit.ly/UH3Tuj Game On! \o/ |
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| Geoff Yates |
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Let me get one thing off my chest the US will never modify its gun laws. Its exactly same issue when you were asked to go Metric. Imperial system is too ingrained and would cost billions (over burden your already extensive country debt).
You could never in hundred years get all the guns out of the system. Simply put black market products would evolve even more. You will not change a nation's life philosophy either. Your problem needs to be tackled differently whether the Video Industry can help I don't know. The invitation is probably (and again simply) motivated by political lobbyists to assist Biden in the selling of the whole concept to the citizens of the US. As you can probably guess I'm not a US citizen (Australian). My wife is a Teachers Aide she works with seriously disadvantage kids to give them some level of normalcy in their education. They routinely practice lock down modes because it helps with all types of school incidents not just gun toting weirdos. Personally, I'd rather be invited and turn up to a meeting than not being invited at all. At least the Video Game Industry can say well we attended and voiced our opinion. If you don't than you could be on the receiving end of unexpected outcomes. However, I did like the article it was well written and I certainly appreciate the point of view. I think you guys have a very serious problem to resolve and unfortunately I don't have any better ideas except I hope you can lessen the chance of these incidents happening in the future. |
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| Matt Robb |
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My big issues with anything like this is people pointing blame at all the wrong places and forming solutions accordingly. Throwing video games in the mix is just another scapegoat. The games reflect reality, but I can't say I know of a game that includes a school shooting in the mix. The more realistic the games get, the more they go military or action movie and further from civilian criminal violence. You could make the GTA argument, but the realism there is sorely lacking.
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| trout trout |
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Great article. On one hand this strikes me as a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. An invite form the white house is maybe not something you turn down. But, I agree that in this case it makes a bad association. Tough call. Do we actually know WHO was asked to participate? What game industry leaders were asked? And shouldn't TV and Movie leaders also be there???
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| Ernest Adams |
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What about those of us who, though perhaps not "industry leaders," have plenty of opinions about what should be done to reduce the gun homicide rate that have nothing to do with video games? Should we shut up just because we're in the game industry? Hardly!
I passed on quite a number concrete proposals. None of them had anything to do with video games. And I'm certainly not going to turn down an opportunity to have Biden's ear on the grounds that I ought to keep my mouth shut for the sake of the game industry. |
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| Dimitri Del Castillo |
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The US has laws limiting the liability that gun makers have when their weapons are responsible for a wrongful death. Any measure to make Video Game makers liable for gun deaths should be responded with pressure to remove gun maker's liability limits.
Fair is fair. |
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| Ernest Adams |
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Let me add that if Biden DIDN'T invite the game industry to the table, our harshest critics would say he was trying to protect us; and if we don't go, they'll say we're afraid of public debate. You don't win political arguments by sitting still and keeping your mouth shut.
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| Michael DeFazio |
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Send Jack Thompson to let him know we are taking this conference and any "concessions" seriously
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| Cordero W |
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On a different topic:
"But no, this outreach by his office had nothing to do with learning more about the art and craft of video games, or what this industry can do for the country's economy, culture or creativity, or its potential to boost an interest in math, technology and science in the U.S. No, this outreach, this long-overdue acknowledgment of this dynamic, burgeoning, creatively driven, highly-academic, highly commercial and cultural, billions-dollar industry was to get an answer for this question" The game industry has to first have an interest to do this anyway. But that requires those in the industry to not be...you know, greedy. Not to mention, I doubt the people in the industry care for such things to begin with. If you want them to help the economy, put regulations and taxes on games. It'll help the industry immensely. |
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| Kevin Fishburne |
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Two things. First politicians spend 33% of their time ensuring the continuity of their office and strengthening their party, 33% solving real problems and the rest of it waving their hands and pretending to be busy in order to look important and justify their existence. Whatever it appears Biden's trying to do, the rest of the iceberg is a different color than the protruding tip.
Second: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preventable_causes_of_death#Leading_causes_ in_the_United_States While innocent people being shot, especially children, is terribly sad and the "news" media's wet dream, in the painful world of preventable deaths it is statistically negligible. In 2007 three times more children and teenagers (ages 0 - 19) were killed in auto accidents than by firearms. Source: http://www.childdeathreview.org/nationalchildmortalitydata.htm I don't have stats to back this up, but I suspect the vast majority of these deaths were not due to mass shootings, but the usual suspects of street crime, gang violence and domestic violence. Is it sexy to talk about poor parenting, public education and poverty driving people to lives of violent crime? How about causing a highway fatality because you're too lazy to use a turn signal or just had to answer that text message? Heart disease and cancer bring grief to more families on a daily basis than firearms ever will, but where's the excitement in discussing that? The pain of a preventable death is the same, whatever the cause, and yet when the relatively rare incident of a maniac shooting up a school occurs, holy shit let's sound the alarms, let loose the dogs, and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! For the children! And Joe Biden is a grinning, loud-mouthed jackass. I think I'm sick of the discussion now, just had to get that off my chest. |
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| Andrew Webber |
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Sometimes I wonder if I'm popping crazy pills, because I have to wonder at the maturity of a society that actually thinks these 'beer summits' fix anything. Even disregarding the criminal ineptitude of the current administration, even disregarding the self-destructive reactionary government we're constantly enabling, even disregarding the fact that the administration always brings their hardline agenda to these 'summits' and believes 'compromise' is the other side just letting them have their way ... the fact of the matter is that no executive action is going to stop tragedies from happening. Stop letting yourself be manipulated.
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| John Trauger |
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Skipping by the debates after the first few:
What I think we all are agreed on is we do NOT want is a computer game version of the Comics Code Authority. That is where this is headed if "crazy shooter" gun violence gets blamed on computer games. So yeah, some authoritative people should probably go tell Biden that games aren't his problem and we really can't help him. Let's not stigmatize those honestly trying to make this point, which is different than walking in sackcloth and ashes, ready to take blame we're not due. Not being present, as appealing as it sounds, is not having one's voice heard. |
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| Nathaniel Grundy |
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People often lump those who play games and those who make games together, because let's face it: We've all been raised with video games. Not attending this meeting would send a message that game devs are societal outcasts who can't be bothered to partake in real world issues. Is that the message you want the world to hear?
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| Joshua Oreskovich |
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As many people have pointed out the link between violent behavior and video games is thin, at best circumstantial. The link between violence and video games is more interesting, but hardly an easy sell. What isn't an easy sell and I believe the turht is the sheer amount of time we immerse ourselves with stupid ideas. the correlation to a lack of belief in anything spiritual, a contorted moral compass ect. those things matter, and those ideas are pervasive..
the correlation between ideas and video games isn't a tough stretch. Enough of those valueless existential philosophy and you have in the best cases confused the user. This isn't a parent problem, gun problem or a video game problem. This is a "I don't give a crap about the other guy" problem. It's a spend most of my time with the stupids and "my way" problem. It's an emphasis of feeding yourself "mental junkfood problem". And it comes from everything, video games, news, political imortality, drug association everything. But you don't "have" to take part in the careless demise of humanity. You can be the first to step out and tell it like it is. If you want to stop video games from being the red headed media step child, stop incriminating yourselves by association. At least switch the blame to commercial America which is a substantially the issue. I mean if you were to point in the room to a "hero" of video games who do you think it would be? What about a 15 year old playing Call of duty? Is his dad playing with him, gangster kid friends, who? I have no idea what Biden's intent is, I wouldn't put my hope i him though. |
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| Robert Schmidt |
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In the wake of the shooting there was a great deal of finger pointing. Right or wrong a finger was pointed at the game industry, specifically the creators of violent games. Biden needed to appear to be doing his due diligence by inviting the game industry to the table. I agree that providing Biden with a list of studies that show there is no link between violent video games and mass murder is the way to go. I also think it makes sense that if we are not part of the problem we don't belong at the table. At the same time, does this mean that the other groups at the table can throw their hands up and say, if the makers of grand theft auto don't need to be here then why do we need to be here? Perhaps we just need someone there to keep pointing to the science when the other groups start to feel the heat and try to deflect to us. Isn't this what ESA is supposed to do?
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| Ben Lippincott |
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Late to the party, but we shouldn't be involving ourselves in highly caustic politics, on either side of this issue. We're not politicians, we're not looking to get political favors, and we shouldn't be willing to kneel to cencorship. These are the only things we could gain by dabbling with these temporary, posturing clowns. We have better things to do, like create things of value.
I won't claim to be an authority here but really, the people called have already made their choice. We really shouldn't continue to divide ourselves with meaningless speculation or bickering. A house divided against itself cannot stand. If the idea that games cause school shootings is even wavering in the minds of these partisan people, we need to come together and remember that we have a right to express ourselves as we choose. Games do not cause violence, we have no place in a blame game involving murders. |
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| Larry Hendrix |
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What we can't do is let personal and political ideology get in the way of what we're dealing with.
Someone need to be a t this meeting to tell VP Biden face to face that there is no correlation between video games and real world shootings in America. |
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| Jonathan Murphy |
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We don't involve ourselves with politics. Politicians involve us. We're a billion dollar industry that doesn't pay the protection money. Welcome to censorship in all it's glorious evil as it skips past addressing real issues to scapegoat.
Wait till they blame climate change, poverty, war on us. Don't think they won't? |
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| Kevin Fishburne |
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Off-color editorial:
Maybe someone should prototype a quick HTML5 game where the faster you press keys the faster Biden's head moves toward and away from the screen. It could be the democratically enumerated and most frequent response to the vice-presidential table's breadcrumb invite. For plausible deniability you could use the old 16-color EGA palette and say it was "Old Snake" from MGS (disinformation) and that it would be "a real stretch of the imagination" (FUD) to think it was an actual person being depicted. 1st rule of Fight Club: See Amendment I, or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions#Fighting_words _and_offensive_speech I say bring the pain. Accuse the industry. Find that boogeyman and try to burn it when you do. I want YouTube videos of officials being informed of the evidence and being enlightened despite themselves. Even the public at large would probably chuckle at such a schooling. Common sense will eventually prevail. |
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| Matt Wilson |
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You make good points, Kris. In any case, I think your article will be eclipsed by the rapid pace of these events.
Violence and ethics are things I struggle with placing in my own games. Every time I think it doesn't matter, I remind myself that militaries make training simulators out of games, teachers use games to educate children - why is it that games can do all these things but when it comes to promoting violence, we are suddenly powerless and find our efforts utterly without import? We seem to want it both ways! Statistics are ultimately meaningless in this kind of discussion - as Kevin Fishburne commented above, the people who take their violence and madness too far are statistical outliers, thousandths of a percent. On the other hand, rookie pilots, students, actually /want/ to learn what games can teach them. Maybe that's the difference - most people don't desire to be mass murderers, but the odd outlier does? Psychology in games and players seems ever more important. |
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| Ryan Smith |
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These articles always bring out the pro-gun, second-amendment-toting, self-proclaimed freedom-loving American people on every website, with everybody from other countries just standing by and shaking their heads.
I don't think the game industry should bother to get involved with this nonsense. The discussion has been had time and time again, and I agree with the article that showing up to this is not going to benefit anybody. Even if video games DID somehow encourage violence (encourage, not cause), it's only with a statistically completely invisble portion of the population to the point that any serious discussion of it on a political level is pointless. People always look to the media when trying to figure out why people commit mass murders, but they're looking at the wrong part. These are disturbed people who are encouraged much more by the amount of attention the NEWS media gives to mass shootings - particularly the perpetrators - and not violent fiction. Video games have absolutely nothing at all to do with it. |
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| Axel Cholewa |
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If you can participate in the discussion at such a high level, I really don't see a reason why you shouldn't. Especially if you want social acceptance, refusing an invitation from the VP doesn't really help.
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| Daniel Martinez |
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Well this was definitely an opinion piece...
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| Kevin Fishburne |
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My well-aimed message to the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the federal government of the United States was specially crafted: http://youtu.be/hZPjvdeQMtA I made it in Kdenlive this evening and tailored it specifically to their inflamed sensibilities. Do enjoy!
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| Glenn Sturgeon |
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This may not help the discussion, but its funny to me to see the constitution mentioned (over & over) when taking a dump on the constitution and civil rights is one of the things our current Fed Gov does best. Its only second to borrowing & spending money.
As far as the topic goes, I think there should be a couple of people from the industry who speak with biden, if only to "defend the industry from the accusations LaPierre imposed upon it." Yes it'd have been convenient to just send a letter stating the studies that have been done over the years which show VGs are not the beast they need to be hunting, but it didn't happen that way. Having a couple of people confront biden with that very information, followed by a dose of reality about why such things possibly occur like economic stress, social issues, psychoactive drugs and mental health. Along with (backed by the studies) making sure he realises the content in games is far from the issue if need be. The feds have thier agenda by calling the meeting, let the industry reps go with thier own agenda. One homicidal, suicidal nut out of hundreds of millions of gamers is as far from the average as you can get. Its like saying the beatles music coused the manson "family" killings. Thats just my 2cents. |
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| Laura Stewart |
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I'm willing to bet extending an invitation to the game industry was conditional to getting the NRA to the table.
While I appreciate the idea of making a statement by not going, not going to the table won't help stop regulations on games being traded for concessions from the NRA, so they can save face instead of being the primary impediment to reducing gun violence. I'm not really concern the VP thinks video games have a causal link to gun violence. But I do think he's ruthless enough to throw us under the bus to get what he wants from the NRA. |
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| Megan Swaine |
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Gun violence isn't just the NRA's problem- it's EVERYBODY'S problem. Everybody should be thinking about solutions. By attending this meeting, industry leaders were acknowledging that they wanted to do something about it.
That's all. This is no longer about causation or blame. People are trying to ask exactly WHAT role video games play (good OR bad) in all of this. We can either step up and try to answer, or we can ignore it and let someone else answer for us. |
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| Michael Joseph |
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"His group will also meet with representatives of the entertainment and video-game industries," Carney said
Representatives? I don't know who these people are, and since I haven't hired them they don't represent me at all. This is the problem with "industries." The goal of any industry is for a relatively few representatives of a few corporations to control an entire sector of the economy and then to work with the political class to shape it's future... will of the citizens be damned. Sounds a bit kooky I know. But I don't mean it in a global conspiracy sense. I mean it in the sense that it's the logical progression of businesses to try to consolidate power. It's human behavior. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cartel Fortunately game dev hasn't been so easy to control because the distribution is still wide open. If somebody wants to have a meeting, let them knock themselves out. Just hope they don't pretend to speak for anyone but themselves or the people they work for. Because it is ULTIMATELY this fear of not having any representation that is the root of the concern we express when we hear about politicians meeting with select individuals over issues and decisions that will affect our lives and the lives of millions of other people. /mode -v Joe Citizen |
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| Sean Kiley |
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Joe is pandering to the old folks out there, such as himself, who think "those darn video games are ruining our country." Using tragedy to push an agenda.
And even if you went to this meeting, what would be the point? Yes mister Biden sir, I'll tell everyone to make cuddly, happy time games from now on, you got it! |
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| Vahid Kazemi |
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Sane people are never afraid of having a dialogue, unless they know they are guilty of course. I so don't get this argument: If you sit to talk about how to solve a problem then you state that you are part of the problem!
This kind of reasoning is the real issue that we have to sit and talk about! This doesn't get us anywhere. Of course everybody thinks they don't have anything to do with the problem and unless you start a conversation you will never know who's right! |
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| Londin Gibson |
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I agree with the writer. Sadly, legislation to reduce the violence in videogames would probably reduce gun sales until the next mass shooting. Once this happens, and the videogame industry is already "reformed", what will the NRA blame next?
Marylin Manson refused to respond when he was accused of Columbine and for those who haven't seen the interview I'll include the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYApo2d8o_A "Interviewer - If you were to talk directly to the victims of Columbine, what would you say to them? Marilyn Manson - I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say because that is what no one did." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6n5Oi4714o - And this his him on Bill O'Reilly. At 5:50 he begins to talk about why he did not initially do any interviews when the Columbine shooting occurred. Maybe meeting with politicians might be a decent idea, but any public response to the media or otherwise would be a bloodbath. Unless someone is strong enough to turn the blame on human error and make it convincing it would be unwise to take the NRA route. |
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| Jonathan Adams |
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I would be tempted to present Joe with a list of "problem" games that might promote or glorify violence:
* Madden (A game designed entirely around brutal conflict) * Cabella's Big Game Hunter (A murder simulator if ever there was one) * America's Army (A gun violence recruitment tool!) * Scarface: The World is Yours (A shameless promotion of violence and criminal activity) |
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| Sean Austin |
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Biden is a politician. This is about Politics. Laura has it right when she says:
"I'm not really concern the VP thinks video games have a causal link to gun violence. But I do think he's ruthless enough to throw us under the bus to get what he wants from the NRA." What no one is talking about is the real issue: Mental Health. |
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| Tyler King |
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I always find it interesting that video games are always focused on when these murders happen. And as tragic as it is, and it is, I don't see why people focus on this when there are relatively speaking very few actual killings compared to other forms of violence in schools and among teenagers.
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/YV-DataSheet-a.pdf Maybe instead of beating down everyone's doors when there is a huge problem like this we should focus on the smaller acts of violence that occur every day. Then maybe, as a nice consequence, we might lessen the amount of large acts of violence. Well less than 1% of the population will ever be exposed to a mass killing, but 32% of teenagers admit to being involved(not witnessing, being involved in) in violent acts(mainly school fights and what not). I would think that lessening that number would go a long way to lowering the number of large incidents. I would also guess that those 32% of people involved in those violent events would not blame video games as what made them want to hurt other people. |
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| Ramin Shokrizade |
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After Columbine, Congress called in Professor Henry Jenkins to clarify if the murderers' play of DOOM contributed to their actions. He stated that this was not the case, and that the involved young men had an existing mental illness state and that their choice of games was coincidental.
I consider Dr. Jenkins to be one of my mentors, but now many years later I have to put it out there that if 50M of our people regularly play and are scored on their ability to perform a specific skill (in this case shooting a lot of people with a variety of guns) then I think it is safe to say that our consumers are learning a potentially real-world skill through the use of interactive media. I think this is one of the most powerful things about IM, that separates it from passive media like TV or movies. I think if 50M people played games about cannibalism, and as an industry we made cannibalism games our most published genre of games, with dozens of iterations of cannibalism games trying to "out-connoisseur" each other, you might just see an effect on consumer behavior. Sure most right-minded people would find the subject of eating each other entertaining, but some few people might actually put the skills they had spent thousands of hours honing to good use. If we saw an increase in the incidence of cannibalism in our society, I think it would be a bit cavalier to just say that we are not part of the problem and that it was totally coincidental that some sick individuals were copying our media content. Just because the subject is "guns" instead of "cannibalism" doesn't mean that this sacred cow should be completely ignored and denied by us. Further, claiming that we are protected by the 1st Amendment does not absolve us of responsibility or even relevance on this topic. The same should go for proponents of the 2nd Amendment. |
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| Justin Kwok |
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Here are the two problems that I see with what this article proposes:
1. If any industry doesn't think they're involved and doesn't show up, nobody would. If you listen to the NRA, they don't believe that guns are even slightly to blame for gun violence. By virtue of the same argument, they would just refuse to show up as well. Might I point out that NOBODY at this meeting thinks that they're responsible. 2. The party without representation at a summit where they're trying to lay blame will always get all/most of the blame. It's just easier for everyone to band together and blame the absent party. If the NRA, Walmart, et al. show up to the summit but the Games Industry has no representation... it's easy for everyone to just say "Yup, it's videogames" without having to actually deal with the real root causes. |
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| Ben Schlessman |
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I would absolutely love the opportunity to meet with Biden and have a conversation about how games can be used to help shape our culture to be a less violent one. Simply meeting with him is absolutely not conceding anything or admitting anything at all. As many people have pointed out, skipping out on the meeting would mean that we no longer have a rational voice in the conversation. We need to be there to make our case, and help brainstorm possible solutions that the game industry can actually promote.
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| Jacob Germany |
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Media are both affected by and affect culture. Culture, not mental health or guns, is the main cause of these mass killings (read various articles about mental health and killers, and how killers are almost exclusively white males).
Media, especially television, movies, and video games, have a unique and powerful potential to be incredible change agents for our culture. To change cultural ideas and norms and values. How, then, do industry representatives not belong at a discussion about gun violence? What is gained by being left out of the conversation? |
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| Chris Thompson |
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Failing to appear in court doesn't prove your innocence.
Why would you turn down an opportunity to help enlighten those that seek to blame our industry out of ignorance. This position of non-cooperation is infantile. It's like saying, "If you don't know, then I'm not telling you!" |
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| Bob Allen |
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The whole logic of "if the game industry shows up, it is admitting guilt or a link" is just stupid. Look at the different groups being invited. Yes they do include gun makers, gun retailers, the NRA, etc. but also included are religious leaders and psychologists. Do you think church leaders aren't going to show up because they believe that it's just a trap to blame school shootings on organized religion? Biden wants input from anyone who could possibly be involved. The game industry (like it or not) became involved the second the NRA leveled blame on the games industry (in its attempts to deflect any blame from themselves) and different news outlets repeated it. The only way to clear the air and set the record straight is to be there in person to state the facts and challenge any of the junk science that any of the other groups might try to offer. To not accept such an invitation would be as dumb as the guy whose being sued not showing up to his court date because he thinks showing up would be admitting guilt. That's not the "dignified" answer, that's just a way of getting a summary judgement against you.
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| Joshua Darlington |
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"If you're among the "game industry leaders" entertaining this question in the court of the Vice President of the U.S.A. and his task force on gun control and violence, you, my well-meaning friend, are stating that you're part of the problem, and therefore, you are part of the problem."
Dunno, this seems like a great opportunity to get funding for a game story engine. One of the reasons that games are a concern for parents and etc is that there is no consequences for violence. It's the classic Ring of Gyges problem described in one of Plato's books. If some one can use an invisible ring - to escape the consequences of their action, it will corrupt their soul. Yes, this is the same idea used in the Invisible Man and the Lord of the Rings. The concern about violent video games is that it teaches kids that they can shoot 1000 people and face no consequences. One of the reason there are no consequences in video games is that building a giant game world with simulated cause and effect is too expensive using today's tools. If there was a powerful game engine for simulation and story, there would be a lot more cause and effect, and a lot of dynamic emergent consequences for violence. The game industry should hit Biden up for a NSF grant to develop a game engine for story and characterization. Video games have their roots in military computers designed to generate ballistics tables. The gov helped create the problem of game violence, they can help to balance it. |
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| Jeff Cary |
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My two cents is that it doesn't matter if people within the video game industry believe they are at fault or not. If the majority of public perception believes that the industry has had an impact on the prior events than that is the reality. How the industry decides to deal with that perception is of the most importance. This perception that people have of the industry comes from the mass media who have just as much--very little--understanding of the industry.
Yet as a society we look to place blame rather than try to truly fix the situation. Instead of the main focus being on how to defend ourselves against violence, why not focus more on teaching not to commit violence. But alas, the money is in the self-defense not in the "cure." |
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| Matt Lindquist |
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This seems like a nutty argument to me. Look, say you're accused of a crime you didn't commit. What's the better choice: refusing to participate with the justice system and hope they understand that means you're innocent or hire a good lawyer, prepare a good case, and argue that case as best you can within that system?
Biden is one of the most powerful people in the country. Refusing a chance to sit down and make a case to him seems absurd to me. Refusing to participate means that the NRA, who IS participating, can point the finger at the games industry while the games industry, who isn't there, is completely unable to defend itself. Refusing to participate would not change the fact that Biden likely ALREADY BELIEVES that games are partially to blame. Most politicians, I think, do. The video game industry not showing up can only INCREASE that belief. You're right. Video games are not to blame for this stuff. But the fact of the matter is, this isn't a matter of pure cold logic. This is a matter of people, with all their fear and confusion and emotions. This isn't a matter of what is or isn't true, it's a matter of what PEOPLE BELIEVE TO BE TRUE. Not being there means that people who already believe you're guilty get to begin the process of policy making without your input or defense. Let me put it another way. Given the state of politics in this country it is very unlikely that truly comprehensive gun legislation can be passed. BUT the Obama administration and congress are still going to want to pass something to make it look like they actually want to solve the problem. Video games WILL be a part of that law making process in one form or another, because video games are something that BOTH parties can agree on. Refusing to participate now, at the very beginning, means ceding complete control of that process to people who have everything to gain from attacking video games. |
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| Stuart Moulder |
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Like Ernest, I did respond and don't regret doing so.
Kris is right that the premise of reaching out to the games industry is almost certainly faulty and I made that point explicitly in my response. But Kris, when someone makes an accusation or even just an invalid connection, simply folding our arms and shaking our heads and refusing to respond is not going to help. Not responding leaves the door wide open to having this committee move forward with their faulty assumptions. Whereas an industry that is engaged and involved and has a seat at the table has a shot at steering the conversation and the actions in a direction that is both more grounded in reality and more likely to yield fruitful action. I won't speak out of turn for anyone else that responded, but I will tell you that without fail, respondents made the point that there is no connection between games (violent or otherwise) and acts of violence. Finally Kris, an aspect of this that may not be obvious is that this committee has no doubt been charged with listening to all points of view on what might be behind these shootings. And responding in some way to those points of view, even if the response is: "We don't agree with this perspective." So the NRA is invited to the table. They have a POV. In the NRA's world view, ownership of guns has no relationship to these shootings. It's a POV; the committee is obligated to hear it. Doesn't mean they'll agree. There is a POV that there is relationship between games and real-world violence. Is it correct? No. But if the committee is to make any headway with the actions they ARE going to recommend, they have to at least give of the appearance of having considered every perspective on this. And in that case, I'm much happier to have a chance to be a part of that dialogue then to leave it to others to drive the message. Stuart Moulder, CEO, Her Interactive, stuart@herinteractive.com |
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| Joshua Darlington |
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Biden is required to take the voice of the NRA seriously as part of negotiating some sort of adjustment to gun laws. The NRA is the premier formal institution representing the gun industry. The NRA is trying to distract and change the subject by pointing the finger at the entertainment industry.
The video game industry should take part in the negotiation by first shooting down the NRA's argument, but also offering some sort of symbolic ground (like "no more badges for head shots") and also asking for something like tax breaks for more socially positive games or whatever. |
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| Justin Sawchuk |
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I want to make an ultra violent video game next time just to piss off the commies lets make it about killing commies.
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| David Boudreau |
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That's a bit hypocritical and irresponsible of you Kris to just point the finger at anyone besides yourself and your industry, and suggest shutting off meeting/communication altogether. Re: "A group that said you're all part of a 'shadow industry.' Lovely company, right? Well, here we are." Except your plan sounds like a great way to stay in those shadows.
Exhibit 1: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/184504/are_game_developers_standing_up_.ph p "The dark side also emerges when you talk to individual game developers about their working conditions and the risks that they face. Developers say that they face challenges with sustained long working hours ("crunch"), unlimited and unpaid overtime, poor work-life balance, high incidence of musculoskeletal disorders and burnout, unacknowledged intellectual property rights, limited crediting standards, non-compete and non-disclosure agreements, and limited or unsupported training opportunities." |
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| Gregory Booth |
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/Agree
Kris is mostly on point. Strong opinions voiced here. Imagine that, strong opinions re: politically charged topics. What did Dirty Harry say about opinions? |
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| Michel Desjardins |
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I agree with the core of the article.
But, we have two choices about it: 1 - Be active 2 - Be passive Not participating to the discussion is being passive. Passive to the extent that a third party (US Gov) will take decisions that can affect us. Being active put ourselves on the radar, yes. But at we are involve and we have something to say and can influence and help shaping our future. I would rather stay more in control by being active about it than let other people managing our life for us, while we play. |
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| Brian Buchner |
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What about fiction's obligations. Are authors portraying violence in their medium of choice going to be required to be there? Or do they get a free pass because it's an older medium?
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| Altug Isigan |
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The whole discussion is absurd, mostly because of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army I think this is the only game that has been made with the purpose to put real guns into people's hands. And so is the NRA's purpose. So, why's the entertainment industry there? |
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