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Nintendo has always done what it takes for them to be successful. Even during the Gamecube years where Nintendo was without a doubt last place. They still made more money the entire generation than the market controller Sony's PS2. During the Wii generation Nintendo's own games have out sold several of the top 3rd party giants who are multiplat games. While the market has changed again in this new generation. Nintendo's common sense practices when selling their hardware, and their still profitable exclusive 1st party content. Nintendo may not be the market leader this generation, and fall back to 3rd place in the market. They can still make the Wii U a moderately successful console. Moving at least 40 to 50 million systems world wide.
EA has already moved away from Wii U support. Still with their performance on the Wii Nintendo console owners are not missing much. Gamers who wanted those games have been bought them on other consoles. Companies like Rockstar release shovel ware on the Wii during the casual party boom. So Nintendo never got any of their major titles. Then Ubisoft who provided a mixture of support from core to casual games. Despite the success that is Assassin Creed their most successful game last generation was Just Dance. At one time a Wii Exclusive, and to this day sells best on Nintendo consoles. If anything Nintendo will lose the smaller 3rd party support they saw during the Wii lifespan. Overall I believe that a lot of small 3rd party developers will be affect by everyone's move to more power consoles. So they will not be able to produce games unless they are backed by major publishers. So like I said the Wii U at worst will become a console similar to the Gamecube, and at best a niche console like the Wii. Featuring games in genres that have moved on to mobile devices or Japanese exclusive content. Still since the topic is all about Western support. Before the Wii U launch there was signs of lack of support coming from them. They want to see Nintendo burn, and will do everything they can to make it happen. |
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| A W |
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The road is gloomy ahead...
I wrote in a post on IGN just last night that I believe that Nintendo may have been in a profit bubble while the third party and hardware companies suffered significantly during the economic downturn that still plagues markets till this day. Because of this Nintendo can afford to wait a bit before releasing it first party titles while third party has to hurry up an make costs effective decisions to keep even. I believe that Nintendo took to heart the criticisms that their titles always do well on their systems while third parties (who put little to no effort behind their ports to Nintendo platforms) suffer greatly. So this go round they allowed for the third parties to go first on the Wii U and to that they made yet another mistake. I think Nintendo should take an approach now that AAA third parties are up to only making excuses and not up to making a buck on Nintendo hardware. They should no longer hamper their release titles in hopes that third parties will support their products with honesty. They should also cater more to individual developers through e-shop who seem to be growing the market while the AAA publishers and developers continue to take the conservative approach of support Microsoft / Sony first because they have higher specs. If they do this, I see more interesting games coming down the road exclusive to Wii U while the other two giants will have to wait it out. Now is the time for them to change the message before the media gets out of hand (even though we may already be there.) |
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| Ian Fisch |
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I don't know what Nintendo was thinking here.
The Wii U is roughly as powerful as the Xbox360 and PS3, but with far fewer titles, and an inferior online experience....for $350. They could, and should have, released an HD version of the Wii, with built-in motion+, for UNDER $200. The insanely expensive tablet gamepad thingy is an anchor weighing them down. |
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| Jonathan Murphy |
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Nintendo relied on Ubisoft, EA, Activision, and THQ to help them with the Wii U launch. But those companies are multi platform centric. Instead of investing in many indie games that are now on Steam, Nintendo; like Sony and MS gave Valve the shoulder. There's a market shift. If it's ignored we'll see THQ bankruptcy x10 in the next 5 years; Not just from the U, but the rest that don't adapt.
It's about the games, not the bells and whistles. |
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| Kevin Fisk |
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To me it just looks like there won't be a true innovator this next generation. The Wii really stood out as being different and Wii hardware sales inflated the industry. The tablet controller is actually cool to me and I feel like it's the perfect evolution of the standard controller. To the majority of people that bought the Wii though, it must be pretty uninspiring since they aren't buying Wii U systems. This should be troubling for all the hardware makers since no one is guaranteed this crowd.
The way I see it this is a big problem for the games industry as a whole. I just don't see either MS or Sony stepping up and providing an innovation that will be a big enough hook to earn mass appeal. Third parties want to develop a game once and push it out on all platforms easily so any future innovation that sets you apart from the pack will probably be ignored and could even cost you support. I don't think it's a good sign that the only rumoured features of these consoles are designed to fleece consumers either. The rumored specs from both MS and Sony sound plausible but they also sound extremely close in overall architecture. Ideally this will push Nintendo, MS, and Sony to push software innovations but you can't really predict that kind of thing. I might sound pessimistic but the general consensus I get from forums like NeoGaf is that Sony and MS will profit more now that Nintendo is seeing trouble but I don't really see it that way. Although some are also predicting the end of dedicated gaming hardware but I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far yet. |
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| Michael Pianta |
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I think this problem is actually largely outside of Nintendo's control, because I think at the root of it is gamer culture. Only certain kinds of people buy $350 machines and $60 games and a great swath of gamers between the ages of, say, 13 and 23, see Nintendo as categorically uncool. It's just this big barrier that Nintendo has to overcome and can't.
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| Mike Griffin |
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It feels like the Wii U was either 1 year too late (as mentioned, a cheap HD-capable/native Motion+ Wii upgrade may have been easier to swallow wide-scale), or 6 months too soon -- a larger library and slightly reduced manufacturing cost with a $299 32gb SKU price may have helped, despite skipping the Thanksgiving>Holidays window.
The U sort of dropped itself in limbo without enough app and value to gain the rapid traction that Nintendo desired. Irrecoverable? Of course not. But it's the second straight Nintendo hardware release (3DS' early hiccups) that will need to scramble back into the spotlight via cost cuts and delayed key releases, just as the competition prepares to unleash new devices. Devices that will, unlike the Wii's relationship with 360 and PS3 this round, end up competing directly with the Wii U despite its unique novelties. Nintendo needs to buckle-up and put the pedal to the metal. |
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| John Flush |
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Nintendo's problem is they put out too many recognizable games. If people only buy 5-10 games for their console, which 5-10 do they pick for a Nintendo console? The Nintendo ones. They are highly promoted through My Nintendo (website, console, etc) and happen to have some of the most famous mascots in gaming.
Only people that are gamers will even look beyond the Nintendo library when buying games for their console - the fact that they pretty much avoided hitting a cord with gamers in the Wii generation means that the same thing will happen again. Only this time I don't see a whole bunch of people dying to play more videos games after that 'wii' thing they bought and never played much. And as a gamer I don't see much reason to drop the money for a Wii U yet. There isn't any amazing tech I can't miss out on (or at least really want to try). I know most developers, especially with Multiplatform requirements, that will even use the hardware the Wii U provides and honestly I don't see how the second screen doesn't $300 of innovative that I felt needed to be 'fixed' from a normal console experience. And the platform specific games just aren't there yet enough for me to care. |
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| Eduardo Raposo |
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"On the technical side, Nintendo has been cagey about the full Wii U specifications but the investigators at Eurogamers' Digital Foundry believe that new high-resolution shots of the hardware inside the system "finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U." In other words, the Wii U could still be a step behind in terms of processing power when newer systems from Microsoft and Sony launch later this year (though that didn't hurt the Wii so much, at least for its first few years on the market)."
While I agree that the Wii U will be a step behind the new Sony and Microsoft consoles, people are seriously underestimating the console's hardware. It is one of the dangers of taking video game articles, even by people with good reputation like Digital Foundry, for fact. That whole hardware argument was debunked by the creators of that technical analysis thread on neogaf (source of the content), and the person responsible for taking the photographs of the GPU. Their conclusion was that the GPU and CPU were highly customized (completely) and all in all quite impressive, and that even if they weren't sure what a big part of the chip did, it was a high-grade piece of technology entirely not cheap to make. Just as some people _claim_ that the next Sony and Microsoft consoles will be in a different league, _facts_ have some shown that the Wii U is in an entirely different league from the Xbox360 and PS3. Anywho, the hardware isn't even that important. In my opinion, the troubles Nintendo has with 3rd party support is mostly that of a vicious cycle, started at the end of the N64 era. Nintendo didn't treat their 3rd party suppliers very well in the NES, SNES, and N64 era in multiple ways (for example, the use of cartridges). But with the coming of Nintendo consoles that were easier to develop for, and especially towards the Wii and Wii U, Nintendo softened up a lot, and seemed to realize that they needed to change their game in order to compete with Sony and Microsoft. The problem, of course, was that the bigger 3rd party devs had learned to fear/distrust Nintendo's old practices, which didn't make them especially enthused to release major software on their consoles. So, the only way they can play it safe is by waiting to see if the console's install base grew. Of course, this results in there not being a lot of software to make that install base grow, and so, the install base among the core audiences doesn't grow because there's not enough hardware. This only got worse when, out of caution and greed at the prospect of milking the massive Wii install base, major 3rd party devs drowned the console in a vast wave of shovelware and children's games, while the considerable core audience was starved for AAA content. (http://pietriots.com/2010/12/17/the-3rd-party-wall-of-shame/ contains all game from all the major devs released on the Wii). This resulted in 2 enormous problems for Nintendo: 1) People introduced to core gaming in that generation, and some of the more easily-influenced adults, came to see Nintendo as a kid's company (a lot more so than before). 2) The abundance of shovelware sold really bad and those 3rd party devs came to believe (which is incomprehensible to any person with a basic business sense) that releasing games on the Wii wasn't profitable. This second point is even more mindbogglingly irrational when you consider that, apart from the vast casual audience that didn't have a very high software attach rate , the Wii also had a considerable core install base that just wasn't interested in the shovelware. Devs, either in a total disconnect from reality, or in damage control mode, started claiming that no one but Nintendo could make a profit on Nintendo consoles. But when you look at the list of anything remotely related to a AAA game on the Wii... the list is dismal. Devs made perhaps 1 or 2 attempts at releasing a major new IP or existent franchise on the Wii. Most of the new IP was at launch, when sales are naturally quite limited, and buggy because of unfamiliar hardware. The existent franchises, when ported over to the Wii, came almost solely in heavily butchered ports, and cheap spin-offs. Yet the myth grew that Nintendo consoles were a desolate landscape for 3rd party. Interestingly enough, smaller and even some larger third party devs that DID have the courage and vision to create _worthwhile_ content for the Wii were quite succesful. Just look at Monster Hunter Tri. I'm not exactly a huge Nintendo fanboy, but it still hurts to see so much negativity surrounding the Wii U. Especially since the problem lies with the actions of third party devs, gaming news sites and magazines, and the mindset of the gamer population. Nintendo is such an important part of gaming history, and still perhaps the driving force of innovation amongst the gaming titans; I just can't seem to understand why people would hate it so. All in all it shows a glimpse of something I've always felt while majoring in Economics and Business Management: numbers and calculations, theories and dissertations, left or right—these things might have their value when analyzing economic phenomena and situations, but in the end, the most important things, the most influential things are thoughts, mindset, and reputation. Humans are superficial, and so they think and act superficially. |
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| Alan Rimkeit |
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Metroid. Not like Other M. Like Metroid Prime. No Metroid? No deal. I will buy one then and only then. Nuff said.
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| Bob Johnson |
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Nintendo is not going to get any AAA 3rd party support except for cases where the 3rd party has to make a sku like Madden has to be on all platforms (NFL license terms I'm guessing) and a big AAA game like CoD where the game is so big it is worth their while and the latter might not happen again if sales are really bad.
They will get some Japanese 3rd party support because Nintendo knows their home market and have closer relationships with with 3rd party publishers in Japan. But these titles will be smaller budgeted titles. The 3rd party support that they will get in the US is for titles that fit the Nintendo 6-12 yr old demographic as Mr. Bobby Kotick referenced during Activision's earnings call. Skylanders, Just Dance, Scribblenauts, Lego, Rayman... those are the some of the more well known 3rd party franchises that the Wii U will be home to. That's it. The Wii U may see ports of 360 and PS3 games. And considering that the 720 and PS4 install bases will take awhile to grow you will see 360 and PS3 versions of many games for a few years yet. And thus perhaps will see a few of those ported to the Wii U as well. |
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| Eduardo Raposo |
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By releasing PS3 and Xbox360 versions of Nextbox and PS4 games Sony and Microsoft would be cannibalizing their own market in a rather severe way. I can see third party doing that in a limited way, but I somehow doubt that will happen for first and second party content.
Also, according to Mr Kotick, the Wii U has performed quite badly in the 6-12 age bracket, hence his misgivings. But of course, any proof that Nintendo's core audience is actually the people who grew up with Nintendo consoles, people who are usually at the very least 25 years old or so, gets instantly forgotten and replaced by the "Nintendo is for kids" mantra. Moreover, I keep seeing this new idea popping up since the latest Nintendo Direct. "The Wii U will become a home to Japanese video game content, while the western studios ignore them." I don't think that's quite right. Interesting as Monolith Soft's X and the Fire Emblem/SMT cross-over might be, and while the 3DS and DS have attracted a fair share of JRPG material, as far as I know, Sony still dominates that market since the PSone, and the PSP is still a preferred JRPG console for most Japanese adult gamers. If anything, Nintendo has the most chance to become a haven for indie games. Analysts and journalists alike have been cautious in their praise of Wii U's eShop platform, but the truth is that, despite some details (such as hardware-bound Nintendo ID's), the eShop is by far the best digital game platform on the console market, where infrastructure is concerned. This will only improve in the future as Nintendo has announced their efforts to improve the overall OS performance, to do away with their "Office" requirements, and to establish a Nintendo ID system that isn't locked to your hardware. |
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| Leon T |
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Outside of partnerships and publishing the games themselves Nintendo should expect very little third party support. They need to work with more outside developers to help fill in the gaps. I think they need to go as far as fund a bunch of exclusive indie projects for the platform too. One way or another they need open up their warchest and makes some things happen. They need to push DQX in Japan as if the system is relaunching and do the same for Monster Hunter/Lego City in the west.
I'm surprised that they are not even trying to hold on their audience from the Wii so far. Nintendoland appeals more to their core audience than the expanded audience. The expanded audience were sold on the Wii Sports and Wii Fit games, but Nintendo still has nothing launched for them. I hope their efforts are better their Nintendogs+cats/brainage games on the 3DS that failed to get the spark that the DS games got. |
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| Bob Johnson |
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What is Nintendo thinking?
Well what is the gaming media thinking that they think Nintendo wants to play the same game as everyone else? And just can't figure it out. They obviously do not. They knew very well the type of console they were releasing. They knew it wasn't going to be what MS and Sony were going to release. And they knew that western 3rd parties were extremely likely to support the usual standard console with better graphics that Ms and Sony were (presumably going to be) doing. Nintendo chose to spend their money on tech other than the best graphics/cpu/ram for their pricepoint. They instead chose to spend it on the Gamepad. That is their vision of next-gen gaming. Are we surprised? WE shouldn't be yet every day the gaming media seems to be stuck in the script for the movie Groundhog Day. Always forgetting that Nintendo doesn't believe that graphics are the only answer. They believe in experimenting with interfaces and new types of gameplay those interfaces bring about. One look at the titles they have made over the years also should eliminate any surprise that Nintendo doesn't require uber graphic machine numero uno to make the graphics for their games. I think that not only do they envision making a 3rd similar console for the marketplace as a money losing cutthroat venture, but that they looked at each other one day and said, you know none of our games, the games that sell 25 million copies or 10 million copies, none of our franchises, need uber-realistic graphics. Let's put our money somewhere else. Let us differentiate ourselves from the competition. And so they did. And have done. Why are we still talking about this 7 years after the release of the Wii? 9 years after the DS came out? ..as if we are restarting the same day again. Is is that foreign to us in the west? I guess so. But clear as day to me. |
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| GameViewPoint Developer |
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When the announcement came of the Wii U I was excited as anyone to see what console they were going to announce. Finally there was going to be a Nintendo machine that had the graphics power to take on the new Xbox and PS. Super Mario World, Mario Kart, Metroid all with next gen graphics, I couldn't wait.
And then they released the details/images of it and within 30 seconds it was obvious it was all over for Nintendo. The "unique" feature, of the controller just looked like a joke, everyone immediately thought of the Dreamcast controllers. Sure if you could take your game with you on your controller/tablet, if you could leave the house, go to work, and still be playing the same game, that would be cool, but no, instead all you have is basically another screen to play the game on within the house. And then there are the graphics, which at least in those early images looked like Wii graphics! STILL! things have definitely improved graphics wise with the latest games but they still don't look that much better than an Xbox or a PS. I think it's very likely Nintendo will become a software only company and you will see all of it's franchises on every platform going and I suspect that will make them very successful. But still it will be a huge shame. I rate the SNES and Cube as 2 of the best consoles of all time, and that's what we wanted, a next gen SNES or Cube, and that means actually being out front for once in regards to what the machine can do. I think they have one hope with the Wii U and one hope only. And that's to make it as cheap as possible. If they can make it say $149 within a year, then maybe with the great software it will no doubt have, people will buy it along side the new Xbox or PS, but if they don't do that I think Nintendo won't be at the party this time. |
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| warren blyth |
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In the past it's always been scripture that the console with the biggest games library will win the generation (yes?.) And this generally went hand in hand with being the first console to market.
Why isn't this happening with WiiU? |
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| Derek Poole |
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Not sure if anyone has addressed this yet, but I think one major problem with the Wii U's launch was the lack of a killer app. The Wii had Zelda, which was THE reason for me to buy one at launch.
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| Bob Johnson |
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Zelda isn't a huge title compared to SMB or MK or Smash Bros. Not sure that would do much for the launch. Maybe it would have grabbed more diehards initially.
I think the $350 isn't an impulse buy. I don't think the public really knows about the Wii U. I think a lot of money is being spent on tablets and smartphones and iPod touches. Mind you not directly as a console replacement but after a family buys a kid an iPad I would think a console purchase is out off for awhile. While the games aren't direct replacements the gaming experience is enough to entertain for the time being. I think the software on the Wii U is ... a bit been there, done that except NintendoLand and that title is a bit difficult to understand unless you play it. When you do play it with friends and family you see the fun. You see the depth. Still it wasn't absolutely magical like WiiSports. But it is fresh and entertaining in a more subtle way. Otherwise you got a SMB game which is a good one. But ...there have been now 4 SMB titles in 5 or 6 years if you count their handhelds. On the other hand SMB Wii U will have a long shelf life. And it is a good game. And many youngsters coming into the Nintendo's demographics haven't played SMB. ZombiU is interesting. But the type of title that sells to folks that have 360s and PS3s. Problem is those folks probably know that the Wii U is not going to be a next-gen home for those types of games. They aren't going to buy a Wii U just for ZombiU. The rest of the stuff are 360 ports. And isn't Sing Party from Nintendo? But that stuff has been done on other consoles and is nothing new although maybe I am being superficial. I don't think reading lyrics off your Gamepad is enough to get folks to buy a Wii U. Someone could probably make a free Karaoke game on the iPad. Also no one really needs Netflix or YouTube or Amazon on Demand on another device. :) Although I really like using those services on the Wii U. They work pretty well. And the browser works good too. Still when everyone has tablets, phones, iPod Touches, laptops, not sure a pretty good browser on the Gamepad counts for a ton. btw did you know you can go to Youtube on your browser, play a video which is also beamed to your tv and then hit a button and surf the internet while the YouTube video plays on your tv? Kind of cool. SAw that on the internets the other day. I owned the Wii U for 3 months and had no idea. You can't do that with the YouTube though. Oh and TVii has potential. I haven't been able to test it much because I don't have a traditional cable box. I have some uncommon WMC pc dvr setup. Anyway you use it to find content across cable, netflix, amazon etc. And it will change your cablebox channel to the show you select. Suppose to eventually support Tivo too. Problem is I have my doubts on whether this will really be fully realized. They need to do more. The tv remote needs to support audio video receivers. The tv remote needs up/down arrows to make switching inputs faster instead of having to cycle through your inputs to get the one above the one you were at. Little things like that. Also once you know your show and the time do you need to turn on the Wii U, touch your show icon to have the Wii U change the channel for you? The Wii U isn't as quiet as a cable box either. It ain't loud, but at night you hear the fans. To make the Tvii stuff work they almost have to become a software/web company too. Halfway or 3/4 won't cut it. They won't though. Too region/tv provider specific. Wii U is going to be what every Nintendo console has been for the past 3 and now 4 generations. A 1st party machine with a handful or two 3rd party games worth playing. IT will be the console for fans and families with younger children. |
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| ian stansbury |
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I feel the opposite of most people on this thread. While the U required little convincing for me to buy it, the new Xbox and PS will. The main reason behind this is the fact that i already have a PC game rig. They are going to have to come out with something amazing that can convince we to blow 500 bucks on that rather than get the newest, snazziest video card on the market at the time. Same reasoning I, and most people out there I think, only own either PS3 or XBox. I simply can't justify another console purchase just to play at most 2-3 titles only on that system.
I've been having fun with my Wii U as well though and don't regret the purchase. But if your looking for an apples to apples comparison between the Nintendo and the other consoles, your gonna have a bad time. I didnt get the U to play the games with the greatest graphics, thats what my PC is for. I got the U for the 'neato!' factor of the gamepad, the classic mario/zelda/metroid games, and as a system to play with friends. Nintendo land is fun in groups and shows off the game pad. I've been playing the Wii zelda games when alone. My girlfriend loves just dance and mario. None of the things I got the system for really are what the other consoles are known for. The U was released for the early adopters this christmas. I expect a much better line up by this christmas, and more steady sales. |
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| Joshua Oreskovich |
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The screen need to be removable on the wiiU, the hand set positions need to be "collapsable" (laterally), they need to add a kick stand for the mini-screen, they also need to make the WiiU a multi function device that can operate with other systems, Steam most likely for multi use capability. Then they will be truly next gen. If steam operated with them we would also get a linux free-support sytem, both companies get what they want ...and will dominate Sony, Apple, and Microsoft combined through cooperating.
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| ray G |
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Why would anyone want a WiiU?? I mean seriously what we know as a "hardcore gamer" should be able to do just fine with a PS3,360 and honestly still play a PS2 over WIIU. Their best games are mostly games that are have been out for a long time on other consoles...Not to mention no one plays Zelda and Mario anymore (like they used to). Seeing kids with these mascot shirts have been ousted big time by games like Angry Birds, that should tell you something. I asked kids (pre teens) if they played or liked Zelda, Mario, Sonic or even Mega man.. They knew who Mario and Sonic were and only knew link from old Smash games but they dont play those games. kids know IOS games these days more then console games...Ninentendo's real only fanbase are fanboys orgasaming over any table scarp Nintendo will throw their way. Some guy seriously tried convincing me on some TV service. "You serious mate???"
Call it "hate" or whatever, bottom line is the only person who actually wants a WIIU are fanboys. |
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