The new documentary from filmmaker Shannon Sun-Higginson, dubbed GTFO, is poised to tackle the subject of sexual harassment and gender inequality in video games. It presently sits at just over 50 percent funded on Kickstarter.
We recently had the chance to chat up Sun-Higginson about her motivations and where she sees GTFO going.
What was the inciting incident for this project?
I first found out about this issue [sexism in games] when a good friend of mine told me about the sexual harassment of a female gamer by her male coach during a Cross Assault tournament last year.
I was shocked not only at this young man's behavior, but also because I had no idea that this was such a widespread problem. I decided that everyone, not just gamers, needed to know about this so I immediately began research for the film.
Some might say to do a film on this geared toward a general audience would exacerbate games' current public image problems. Others might say we need to hold this industry's feet to the fire if we're going to see any improvements. What are your thoughts?
I don't want people to see me as an intruder who is criticizing their industry.
As a child I had a Game Boy and a Nintendo 64, but only ever played with good friends, so the idea of sexism in gaming never crossed my mind. However, the cultural stigma put on girls who are into video games is a widespread problem and is going to be one of the focuses of the film.
[GTFO] is an opportunity for gamers and non-gamers to start a dialogue about why there is such a widespread culture of misogyny. Many of the people who have reached out to me are men who are also extremely disturbed by this type of behavior. The goal is not to pass judgment on gaming as a whole, but rather to connect people so we can start to discuss solve this problem. I want to bring light to the issue and make it socially and culturally unacceptable for people to treat others this way, in any industry.
Anytime someone brings up sexism in video game culture, especially if they're a woman, it seems like there's a huge amount of pushback from people (mainly men) who don't believe it's a problem. Since starting this project, have you encountered any of that?
I've been very lucky so far in that the responses to the film have been overwhelmingly positive with just a few exceptions. But if the film gains any publicity, I am aware that this is a very sensitive issue and am prepared for backlash. I've gotten a lot of advice from women who are constantly getting attacked, telling me to ignore it and just let it roll off my back. Hopefully it won't come to that, but if it does, I feel prepared.
The biggest surprise has been everyone's receptivity to being interviewed and being part of the project. I know that this is a difficult issue for a lot of people to talk about, so I greatly appreciate all the women who are willing to put themselves out there in order to help with the project.
Tell us a bit more about your background in film.
I received my BA in Film Studies from Wesleyan University in 2010. Since then, I have been working at a Production Coordinator at Zero Point Zero Production on such shows as Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations on The Travel Channel and Parts Unknown on CNN. This is the first feature film I've produced, but I have several years of experience in the documentary genre.
Your Kickstarter (as of this writing) stands at about 50 percent funded, with [11 days] to go. Say the worst happens and you don't reach your funding target- you've already shot a lot of footage for this documentary, so will you be going ahead regardless?
I hope to make this film regardless of whether the Kickstarter is successful. If I can't get funding through crowd sourcing or documentary grants, I still hope to at least make a short film or perhaps even a web series. So if the Kickstarter doesn't work out, still keep an eye out for GTFO!
If someone wants to get in touch with you about their personal experience with sexism/harassment, what's the best way to reach you?
I am always looking for people who are passionate about this subject and have ideas about the film, or would like to be interviewed. You can get in touch with me via Kickstarter message, or on Facebook or Twitter.
It doesn't have to be. It depends on how the film turns out. Also, the more we have of this (this sort of exposure to sexism and what's going on), the better. Our current generation (and the generations ahead of us) should know that women are equally capable at being involved with games and women shouldn't have to hesitate to go into a field they want to work in.
"This is going to be Anita Sarkeesian all over again."
I hope not, even for other reasons then you. The first episode of Tropes vs. Women was of an astonishing low qualitiy when it came to research and was even weaker when it came to arguments based on this research.
I really can't imagine, this one will be worse.
The problem here (again) is that, from the preliminary info, it doesn't look like this movie will take the discussion to a mature level. I wanted to see some real research that tried to map the difference between the gender-specific issues in gaming companies workplaces to other workplaces with the majority of males; researches that showed some correlation between the so-called sexist games and the opinions of the gamers about genders compared with the non-sexist games audience; researches that showed that the behavior of male games towards women in gaming events is worse than other events dominated by male audience; researches about the effect of the "gamer" stereotype and the effects of that on women (that could lead to a cross-prejudice), etc.
It is not that there is no problem in the industry, but instead of focusing on the existence of trolls and the worst kind of people associated with gaming industry to "prove a point" or "raise awareness", those efforts would be better directed at trying to identify points of change (where changes would be really effective) so that people could act.
It is not difficult to understand why many people call both Sun-Higginson and Sarkeesian "attention-seekers" because their efforts seem to be focused on defending a cause by the emotional side, using an unfair argument to rebuff the critics by stating that everyone who disagrees is sexist, and the use of kickstarter to make the project riskless. And it only attract people that are not adequate to discuss the matter, both for and against them, leaving the real problems aside,
"I wanted to see some real research that tried to map the difference between the gender-specific issues in gaming companies workplaces to other workplaces with the majority of males; researches that showed some correlation between the so-called sexist games and the opinions of the gamers about genders compared with the non-sexist games audience..."
There won't be anything like that in the documentary, because no such research exists.
I know the documentary will not feature any of those researches, but that is what we needed to get past of anedoctal evidences of the existence or the non-existence of the sexist issues in gaming industry and culture.
Problems can only be fixed when people acknowledge its existence and define its boundaries. If we keep the discussion level to "I think there is a problem/I think there is not a problem", "I think the problem is X/I think the problem is Y", "I know someone who said this/I know someone who said that", "You think there is a problem because you are xxxx/You think there isn't a problem because you are xxxx", we will be running in circles and presencing useless debates all over the internet.
Some may argue it is difficult to do such a research, but aren't they all self-professed journalists? Last time I checked, being a journalist was not to publish press releases, interviews, rumors found in forums and personal opinions. But gaming community seems to be focused on rumors and opinions rather than facts, and that is why it is generally seen as something immature even when compared with other forms of entertainment and gets a lot more flak from the society (like much more censorship than other media and accusations that what cause killing sprees are games) than other media that feature the same levels of controversial content like TV or movies.
This project sounds much more interesting than Anita Sarkeesian's series and I just backed after reading about it. I think it's good and refreshing to have an outsider's perspective, so long as the "outsider" equals objectivity as opposed to condescension. Personally, I feel like so much media covering sexism in the gaming industry so far is increasingly focused on the negatives instead of positives. For example, Dontnod's struggle to retain "Remember Me"'s female lead was painted in cynicism towards the pervasive sexism running rampant through the industry, not the fact that Dontnod succeeded in maintaining their artistic vision and Capcom believes in their vision.
My biggest concern is that troglodyte alpha-male gradually becomes installed as representative of the straight male status quo of gaming enthusiasts, which, as evidenced by the articles and comments section on Gamasutra, is clearly not the case. "Entitlement" is a term that gets thrown around casually alongside the generalization of male gaming MRA audiences depicted as hateful nerds who genuinely believe misandry is a thing. This is hardly abuse (I use that word lightly) commensurate to what women and LGBT enthusiasts have had to endure in reconciling their love for gaming versus the negativity out there, but it is certainly a hurtful or at least a troubling generalization to those of us who have very special women in our lives and don't subscribe to this alpha-male dominance train of thought.
In short, I would like to see this documentary dig deep and expose faults in the system, not archetypes. I'm optimistic and hopeful that this doc gets funded. Best of luck to you, Shannon!
Does it really count as pushback when people mention how dull it is to be reminded that humans act like humans? Is anyone who has been around fighting game enthusiasts truly surprised at this display of unfiltered personalities?
Some people reveal themselves as utter jackasses in moments of high emotion with adrenalin flowing, as a fighting game seeks to produce. Long before video games existed it was said you couldn't really know someone until you'd seen them drunk. This sort of game has much the same effect in unleashing inhibitions. Turns out that a lot of immature young males are easily exposed as... immature young males.
Hey there Eric,
I'd like to touch on a few things you mentioned:
"...how dull it is to be reminded that humans act like humans."
This doesn't have to be dull - being confronted with our nature is a central part of both documentary and storytelling. Human beings can be horrible, cruel, vein, evil little creatures, but we also have the capacity to evaluate and modify our own behavior - both documentary and stories have the capacity to motivate this kind of soul-searching and change. I think that's one of the aims of this film.
"Turns out that a lot of immature young males are easily exposed as... immature young males."
True, but it doesn't give them a free pass; I think that outing and confronting discriminating/demeaning behavior - especially of the systemic variety - is a valid thing to pursue.
We're all broken to one degree or another, but we also have the capacity to be better people than we are now. I welcome it when others are willing to effect that kind of change on a scale beyond their own lives.
There is an old apocryphal story about the practice of suttee. The punch line is, "And in my culture we hang men who cremate living women. Now, let us both practice our culture and see how it plays out!"
If someone tries to excuse lousy behavior by saying it is part of their culture, my immediate reaction be to tell them, "Your culture sucks. Get a new one."
"I don't want people to see me as an intruder who is criticizing their industry."
Oh yay, a "me, we" vs "they, you" documentary.
"As a child I had a Game Boy and a Nintendo 64, but only ever played with good friends"
"By someone is not ingrained in the culture"
Basically, this is Anita 2.0, where it consists of someone who doesn't play games (and if they do, it is only mainstream games, and not actually interviewing developers, making assumptions, etc) playing up the "progressive" bandwagon, assuming ALL gamers are like this, gamers should feel guilty, you should feel guilty, and THE WHOLE INDUSTRY IS NOTHING BUT BARBARIANS.
but guise its okay 'cuz im a geek like you :P
I'll put it this way. When you play games online...why does your sex matter? Is there a need to announce it to everyone? There will always be the pre-teens on there. Mute them. Not all gamers are like this, and you never hear about the wonderful experiences (I'm looking at you L4D!).
I don't know ... maybe I'm a mean insensitive man but I don't really get it.
I played with a lot of women online... I never saw it as a problem, and they never experienced particular cases of sexism.
At the same time, there are people out there that will try to get on your nerves no matter what you are.
Sexism or racial insults depending on who you are, and if they have nothing to hang on they will probably question your sexuality.
I'll give you that for some ignorant people gaming is not something that is meant for women.
But admitting that you are not a gamer yourself will make you part of the problem and give even more credit to people that think women do not belong in gaming.
I think that ore than focusing on why people treat women like that (the answer is simple: They are idiots. no need for a documentary to reach that conclusion) documenting woman in pro gaming and gaming industry would be a much more positive documentary that is going to cause a better impact.
I mean .. how many chances there are that "sexism is bad" is a message that will stick on the "Tits or GTFO" population?
"shut up, they are kickass pro-gamers and game developers and you are just a looser" is going to stick way better.
Also.... I feel like all these projects ultimately try to say that women need some kind of special treatment to function in the gaming society. As in "they can't possibly handle what the guys are used to handle" which is bullshit.
I don't think girls need that, I think girls need recognition.
Let's highlight positive gamergirls stories, let's stop making female versions of tournaments and gaming community that imply girls do not belong to the same culture and environment the boys do.
That would make a positive change.
I wish her the best of luck
I hope not, even for other reasons then you. The first episode of Tropes vs. Women was of an astonishing low qualitiy when it came to research and was even weaker when it came to arguments based on this research.
I really can't imagine, this one will be worse.
It is not that there is no problem in the industry, but instead of focusing on the existence of trolls and the worst kind of people associated with gaming industry to "prove a point" or "raise awareness", those efforts would be better directed at trying to identify points of change (where changes would be really effective) so that people could act.
It is not difficult to understand why many people call both Sun-Higginson and Sarkeesian "attention-seekers" because their efforts seem to be focused on defending a cause by the emotional side, using an unfair argument to rebuff the critics by stating that everyone who disagrees is sexist, and the use of kickstarter to make the project riskless. And it only attract people that are not adequate to discuss the matter, both for and against them, leaving the real problems aside,
There won't be anything like that in the documentary, because no such research exists.
Problems can only be fixed when people acknowledge its existence and define its boundaries. If we keep the discussion level to "I think there is a problem/I think there is not a problem", "I think the problem is X/I think the problem is Y", "I know someone who said this/I know someone who said that", "You think there is a problem because you are xxxx/You think there isn't a problem because you are xxxx", we will be running in circles and presencing useless debates all over the internet.
Some may argue it is difficult to do such a research, but aren't they all self-professed journalists? Last time I checked, being a journalist was not to publish press releases, interviews, rumors found in forums and personal opinions. But gaming community seems to be focused on rumors and opinions rather than facts, and that is why it is generally seen as something immature even when compared with other forms of entertainment and gets a lot more flak from the society (like much more censorship than other media and accusations that what cause killing sprees are games) than other media that feature the same levels of controversial content like TV or movies.
My biggest concern is that troglodyte alpha-male gradually becomes installed as representative of the straight male status quo of gaming enthusiasts, which, as evidenced by the articles and comments section on Gamasutra, is clearly not the case. "Entitlement" is a term that gets thrown around casually alongside the generalization of male gaming MRA audiences depicted as hateful nerds who genuinely believe misandry is a thing. This is hardly abuse (I use that word lightly) commensurate to what women and LGBT enthusiasts have had to endure in reconciling their love for gaming versus the negativity out there, but it is certainly a hurtful or at least a troubling generalization to those of us who have very special women in our lives and don't subscribe to this alpha-male dominance train of thought.
In short, I would like to see this documentary dig deep and expose faults in the system, not archetypes. I'm optimistic and hopeful that this doc gets funded. Best of luck to you, Shannon!
Some people reveal themselves as utter jackasses in moments of high emotion with adrenalin flowing, as a fighting game seeks to produce. Long before video games existed it was said you couldn't really know someone until you'd seen them drunk. This sort of game has much the same effect in unleashing inhibitions. Turns out that a lot of immature young males are easily exposed as... immature young males.
Shock. Surprise.
I'd like to touch on a few things you mentioned:
"...how dull it is to be reminded that humans act like humans."
This doesn't have to be dull - being confronted with our nature is a central part of both documentary and storytelling. Human beings can be horrible, cruel, vein, evil little creatures, but we also have the capacity to evaluate and modify our own behavior - both documentary and stories have the capacity to motivate this kind of soul-searching and change. I think that's one of the aims of this film.
"Turns out that a lot of immature young males are easily exposed as... immature young males."
True, but it doesn't give them a free pass; I think that outing and confronting discriminating/demeaning behavior - especially of the systemic variety - is a valid thing to pursue.
We're all broken to one degree or another, but we also have the capacity to be better people than we are now. I welcome it when others are willing to effect that kind of change on a scale beyond their own lives.
are you saying our culture hates women?... and I guess you are putting women themselves as inclusive in this statement.?. yes, or no.
because, to me.. this seems ridiculous and overly exaggerated.
If someone tries to excuse lousy behavior by saying it is part of their culture, my immediate reaction be to tell them, "Your culture sucks. Get a new one."
Oh yay, a "me, we" vs "they, you" documentary.
"As a child I had a Game Boy and a Nintendo 64, but only ever played with good friends"
"By someone is not ingrained in the culture"
Basically, this is Anita 2.0, where it consists of someone who doesn't play games (and if they do, it is only mainstream games, and not actually interviewing developers, making assumptions, etc) playing up the "progressive" bandwagon, assuming ALL gamers are like this, gamers should feel guilty, you should feel guilty, and THE WHOLE INDUSTRY IS NOTHING BUT BARBARIANS.
but guise its okay 'cuz im a geek like you :P
I'll put it this way. When you play games online...why does your sex matter? Is there a need to announce it to everyone? There will always be the pre-teens on there. Mute them. Not all gamers are like this, and you never hear about the wonderful experiences (I'm looking at you L4D!).
As a wise man once said, "lurk moar".
Oh,
I played with a lot of women online... I never saw it as a problem, and they never experienced particular cases of sexism.
At the same time, there are people out there that will try to get on your nerves no matter what you are.
Sexism or racial insults depending on who you are, and if they have nothing to hang on they will probably question your sexuality.
I'll give you that for some ignorant people gaming is not something that is meant for women.
But admitting that you are not a gamer yourself will make you part of the problem and give even more credit to people that think women do not belong in gaming.
I think that ore than focusing on why people treat women like that (the answer is simple: They are idiots. no need for a documentary to reach that conclusion) documenting woman in pro gaming and gaming industry would be a much more positive documentary that is going to cause a better impact.
I mean .. how many chances there are that "sexism is bad" is a message that will stick on the "Tits or GTFO" population?
"shut up, they are kickass pro-gamers and game developers and you are just a looser" is going to stick way better.
Also.... I feel like all these projects ultimately try to say that women need some kind of special treatment to function in the gaming society. As in "they can't possibly handle what the guys are used to handle" which is bullshit.
I don't think girls need that, I think girls need recognition.
Let's highlight positive gamergirls stories, let's stop making female versions of tournaments and gaming community that imply girls do not belong to the same culture and environment the boys do.
That would make a positive change.