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Microsoft's official stance on used games for Xbox One
Microsoft's official stance on used games for Xbox One
June 6, 2013 | By Kris Ligman

June 6, 2013 | By Kris Ligman
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Ahead of E3, Microsoft has released an official statement concerning some of the features of its upcoming Xbox One "all-in-one" entertainment system.

Of particular note to readers, Microsoft has clarified the console's treatment of game sharing and selling:

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

Critically, Microsoft says it has placed control over used game sales in the hands of publishers.

Third party publishers may opt in or out of supporting game resale and may set up business terms or transfer fees with retailers. Microsoft does not receive any compensation as part of this. In addition, third party publishers can enable you to give games to friends. Loaning or renting games won't be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners.


The designation "participating retailers" and acknowledgment of way for publishers to control used game policy individually may mean that an official Microsoft reauthorization system will exist alongside the console.

The same statement also includes clarification on Xbox One's online requirements and privacy concerns raised over the Kinect 2.0, which is packed in with the system.

--

Large photo by Generic Brand Productions, used under Creative Commons license


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Comments


Lars Doucet
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I sure am glad that Publishers now get to decide what I can and can't do with what used to be something-not-unlike-my-own-property!

[User Banned]
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This user violated Gamasutra’s Comment Guidelines and has been banned.

Kyle Redd
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@Dan

I'd prepare yourself for a nice big clarification coming on that point. Anyone who seriously thinks that Microsoft and the publishers are going to be just fine with you giving 10 full, free copies of their games to anyone you want around the world, without restriction, is truly a fool.

[User Banned]
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Richard Black
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Actually sounds like a lot of people are going to have to add Gamestop to their friends list.

Daniel Wilson
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@Dan

If you share your account details with 10 people only one instance of a particular game can be played at any one time so sharing is not an issue

[User Banned]
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Mike Murray
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It's the same as what Sony's planning. You know that most publishers aren't going to allow the games to be re-sold. This will make it harder, if not impossible, for people like me to track down rare games that you'll only find used.

John Flush
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I don't really want to take the positive side to this discussion, but having digital downloads pretty much kills the need too, unless you are a collector or something... then yeah, you're screwed.

This also works into the plan to help you rebuy it next gen. We don't have enough money with the games we make now, so we need to keep charging for them every few years with a new delivery method.

Mike Murray
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Here's the thing, though: can Microsoft guarantee that EVERY game that gets released on disc will also be available digitally? That's the issue I have: availability. I don't care if it's digital or otherwise, I just want to be able to find it in some capacity.

Jannis Froese
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If MS says to publishers that they have to deliver the game digitally to get on the Xbone, the publishers have no reason to be against that. MS will get the usual platform fee, but you can cut all the costs of producing physical copies and selling them at retail. Publishers should get at least as much money from digital sales as from retail.

Kris Ligman
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@Mike

We didn't extract this as part of our briefs but according to the documents we linked, yes, all disc-based games will be available as day-one downloadables. That is what Microsoft is forecasting, at least.

sukru tikves
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It goes more than day-1 digital releases. It's about really older games. Fortunately for the PC we have services like GoG that will resurrect older classics (like Bioforge). Or for older consoles we still have eBay and yard sales.

However we already know XBO will not be backwards compatible. This says a lot about being able to buy these games 10-15 years in the future. We probably won't be able to do that.

Jannis Froese
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To be fair, publishers had that control all along. We only called it DRM till now. The main thing that changed is that Microsoft is providing a hopefully stable platform - which is great, as publishers seem to have problems providing enough servers at launch day. No doubt though that some publishers will take the opportunity to change their terms.

Kyle Redd
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It's still called DRM actually. That hasn't changed. What has changed is now every game on the platform will have it.

(Sadly amusing that, for a long time now, PC gamers have been the only folks that have ever had to deal with DRM at all. Now the PC will be the only platform where you could possibly buy a DRM-free game.)

And publishers didn't have any control over my physical game library until now. Not sure where you came up with that idea.

Vincent Hyne
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It's going to be so fantastic when households without the ability to connect the console to the internet realize they've bought a Betamax player the week into release.

This is going to be amazing.

Bob Allen
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Yet people still rave about Steam which has had this problem since day one. Your internet goes offline for a day or two? Too bad you didn't the clairvoyance to tell Steam ahead of time that you want to play your games offline.

Connor Fallon
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Actually Bob, maybe this is just me, but recently my experience has been that Steam just goes into offline mode automatically if it can't connect, whether you were logged in previously or not. I'm not sure when that change occurred, but I'm pretty sure it did?

TC Weidner
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Bob, if a PC game user knows he has poor internet connections, then he has options of getting pc games elsewhere other than steam, big difference from the xbone. You have NO choice nor options with the xbone.

Chris Lynn
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Bob, you can play your Steam games even without an internet connection, I do that everytime. You can't access the store, obviously, but your entire game library is available to play.

Jannis Froese
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And Steam has no problem with that since you can't resell a Steam game. You can't have both a used games market and independence from an internet connection, the potential for abuse would be to big.

Andrew Syfret
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I don't really understand when it became the responsbility for the seller to make sure the customer doesn't buy something they can't use...

Like, consumer's have a responsbility to actually read the requirements for the things that they buy.

Kyle Redd
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@Jannis

"You can't have both a used games market and independence from an internet connection, the potential for abuse would be to big."

You mean like the way every other console has operated until today? Yeah I agree, the "abuse" of consumers exercising their right of first-sale has been a real problem.

Michael Pianta
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@Bob

The difference is Steam is a free service rather than a $500 machine, and all the games on there can be bought for $5.

Mike Lentini
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@Michael Pianta, as a huge fan of Steam, your statements aren't even remotely true. You still need a computer for Steam which will cost you as much as a console in many cases, but probably more. And sure there are a lot of indie games or older games for $5-10, but a lot of games -- especially newer ones -- are definitely above that price point.

Kyle Redd
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@Mike

"You still need a computer for Steam which will cost you as much as a console in many cases, but probably more."

If you are someone who has subscribed to Xbox live Gold since the beginning (a little over 10 years at around $50 per year), and also purchased a single Xbox and Xbox 360 console (let's say for about $300 a piece), you have spent $1,100 just for the *possibility* of playing multiplayer games on Microsoft's service, without having purchased a single game.

A high-end gaming PC, one that would outclass even the next-gen consoles in capability, could certainly be assembled for less than that.

Mario Kummer
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@Mike - sure the games are above that price point. But you just have to wait for a discount day, they even notify you if you add the games to your wish list ;) None of my friends buys the game for these every day prices. We spend 100-200$ on summer or new year sales and thats enough to play for a year.

John Paduch
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@Bob Allen - Uh, you might want to verify your facts before talking smack online, because you are 100% wrong there. Steam automatically enters offline mode if there is no connection, and I can play all of my single-player games (including Borderlands 2, I just play alone obviously) without any trouble whatsoever.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

Michael Pianta
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@Mike

I'm taking it for granted that anyone affluent enough to buy an Xboxone has already got a computer. If not, and a consumer is choosing between an Xboxone OR a computer, then clearly a computer is the better choice. But most of us have a computer already - in fact most people like myself have more than one. A console is a purchase IN ADDITION to the computer you already have.

Meanwhile, regarding the price point comment, I was referring to the heavy sales Steam offers. Certainly there is no reason to pay more than $10 for a game on Steam - even a $40 game will eventually be 75% off.

Jorge Ramos
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@Kyle,

A single GPU already costs more than that. See GTX TITAN. It might MSRP for $999, but good luck finding a retailer that won't charge you an extra $200 for the privilege of getting one sometime while it's still relevant. The other alternative would be a pair of GTX 780's at $650 a piece... $1300 on *just* the graphics horsepower necessary to compete. That doesn't include motherboard ($200~450 in some cases), CPU ($330 for an i7 "K" series), RAM ($300~1100 depending on speed and capacity), monitor(s) ($100~2800 depending on tech, resolution, inputs, EACH), and that's not even counting a copy of an OS to make it all work ($140 for Win7 Pro).

And that you'll have to basically throw everything out and upgrade all over again within 2 years or less to compete.

Consoles are known to get better over time, while PC's get steadily worse. Or did you forget that Crytek can't even be bothered to make a single piece of software that can be run on a computer fluidly sometime THIS DECADE yet?

And did you forget that a lot of this non-sensical DRM started with the PC?
- CD keys
- "install the entire game on hard disk, but still require the disk in the drive to play" ?
- mandatory/periodic CD/DVD checks
- DRM as device drivers
- rootkit DRM
- Need I seriously bring up Origin?

PC never had the advantage of being able to trade/share games either in any shape or form, or even being able to return them when the game would be unplayable, or worse, brick your system because of some glitch that the dev/publisher can't be arsed to have fixed and expected you to have a patch that required the game to be installed in the first place before you can fix it... but you can't fix it because installing it kills your entire system in the process!

It's pretty depressing that publishers and console manufacturers are basically choosing to adopt the WORST practices of PC gaming rather than the BEST practices. :(

Kyle Redd
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@Jorge

Your idea of the cost of a gaming PC seems to be assembled using nothing but wild hyperbole, so I gather that you've never been much of a PC gamer. You do not need a GTX Titan to build a gaming PC that is more powerful than any console, nor anything near that level. The Titan is for gamers who only want the most advanced hardware at all times, and for whom cost is no object.

Really, your entire argument is debunked by this one article: http://tinyurl.com/7q4lnwd

And yes, all of the worst DRM practices started on the PC. And now the PC will be the only way to get DRM-free games. I'm also not sure where you get the idea that "consoles are known for getting better over time, while the PC's get steadily worse." Even if you *just* compare Steam alone vs. the console storefronts, the difference in functionality and user-friendliness is dramatic.

The PS3 store, for example, was recently "upgraded" from one that quickly allowed me to browse and purchase games to one that now takes 2-3 minutes just to finish loading, and cannot be used in conjunction with any other program. Meanwhile, the Steam client starts up pretty much instantaneously and runs quietly in the background.

Jorge Ramos
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@Kyle,

Uhm, yea, you do. You need high-end graphics if you want to play at the resolutions available to a *single* monitor... much less three monitors in surround mode. Or if you happen upon a 3D monitor.

Remember Bioshock 1? When that came out to 360 and PC, HardOCP did a side-by-side comparison of that game, and found that you NEED to run it on High on your PC in order to get the same level of graphics that the 360 was getting, as even just stepping down to medium made the whole game look like that UE3 bug where low-res textures were applied, but never actually loads the correct level your machine should be able to render. And back then, to get such performance an 8800 GTX or Ultra was pretty much mandatory for just *one* 1080p monitor, much less in surround mode.

A PC built with components available in 2005/6 when the 360 and PS3 came out would NOT be able to play the same games available on both platforms at the same details. A PC made around '05/06 for damn sure can't play Crysis 1-3, Dead Space 2 or Bioshock infinite at even a competitive level to the console(s).

The PC I built around the same time of the 360 and PS3 launch couldn't even run Dead Space 1 without yet another $1000 worht of upgrades at the time (new CPU, RAM and GPU)... scarcity pushing up the prices of each. And while I've been grateful that this system has lasted as long as it has, I have no illusions of thinking I could "go cheap" on the next one... and with the summer heat I'm already experiencing, I'd have to figure at least another $400 for the essential components of a liquid cooling loop, much less the cost of individual blocks for the CPU, board and graphics cards, so I don't end up burning alive while using the thing.

Kyle Redd
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@Jorge

Again, you're data seems wildly off. My 5-year old notebook is a dual core 2.5 GHz machine with a 9800M GTS and 4 gigs of RAM. I can play Crysis on that computer at 720p on high detail and easily clear 60 FPS for the entire game, far outpacing the performance of the XBOX 360 version. That was a high-end notebook at the time I bought it, but it was by no means top-of-the-line. I believe I paid around $1,500 for it. A user-built desktop with similar components could have been made for less than $1k at the time.

Did you even read the link to the Digital Foundry article I posted? Are you claiming that their test results are fabricated, or what?

Jorge Ramos
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@Kyle,

You better believe I am calling your bluff, especially with regard to Crysis.

I've had the displeasure of running Crysis (via their demo) on my machine... and even when its in-game frame counter would say I'm running at 90fps consistently, the game felt like it was running more at 10. It was such a complete stutter-show... and to top it off, the game was boring as hell.

It was the only game that so thoroughly displeased me that I wrote to Crytek and told them that not only would I never buy the full game, but that their product was so shoddy, it wasn't even worth the effort to pirate because they couldn't be arsed to make anything more than a glorified tech demo, specifically to appease the "PC Master race" fanboy crowd that can't even get excited unless a game turns $5k worth of hardware into a $20 goodwill special.

Jannis Froese
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@Jorge Well, Crysis is (at least parly) a tech demo of the cry engine.

Still, what we have seen for the next-gen consoles can run on a $700 custom-build desktop. Architectural next-gen consoles could outperform that pc, but the studios don't have the skill sets for that yet. By the time they do, that advantage is diminished and a $700 pc will have the same power again.

Things looked different at the 360 launch. Now you really don't need a titan, a GTX 680 ($400-$500) is more than enough to deliver the graphics which trailers and promos promise us.

Vu Nguyen
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@Kyle Redd... your numbers are a simplistic view... $1100 over 10 years? people spend far more over much smaller time periods on different items. I spent over $1500 on a cell phone over 2 years (not including the apps; $60/month * 12 months * 2 years + $100). I buy coffee at Starbucks every other day at $4 a cup which equates to $7200 over 10 years. I regularly upgrade my PC graphics card every couple of years at $200+ a card (I know, I'm cheap with PC graphics; many friends spend on $300+ cards).

as for the $50/YEAR... if you pay full price, you're not looking. most Xbox people spent $25-40/year during the past 10 years. someone just had a $20 for 12 months sale (Best Buy? I can't remember as I wasn't in need of shopping for more time).

Jorge Ramos
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@Kyle, We already have a tech demo company... that would be id software. We don't need another.

Personally, I don't care if it's supposed to be a tech demo... it should preclude that if you're releasing something on a new engine, then it should actually be 'fun' so that people would WANT to play it and use it to benchmark their systems.

Case in point: While Crysis 1's SP Demo showed me 90fps but played like it was running at 10, my exact same PC also had a test install of Far Cry 2 (loaned to me by a roommate, and which I later returned to him, since its install did not require registering/activation). Not only did the game allow me to select higher settings that were more palpable graphically, the game also paradoxically ran far smoother... its in-game frame counter was reporting playing at 25fps, but its smoothness was on par with about every UE3 or Source game out there on the same machine.

The fact that Crytek is so obnoxious about its attitude toward users, and that they publicly whine and complain about having to optimize ANYTHING for ANYTHING at all, makes me feel that - of all the studios EA has done business with in its life - it should be Crytek that should be getting all of the punishing and denigration, rather than seeing good studios that know how to make good games get squandered and killed off (Origin, Westwood, Pandemic, Bioware, to name a few).

Michael Joseph
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Everyone remembers the Windows 95 campaign and launch and everyone was full of hope. America was great. The stock market was on the rise.

Now... it's a lot harder to get excited about electronic devices and software. I hope Microsoft starts thinking more about getting people hopeful and excited. I hope they start thinking about market share more than margins, and start getting people excited about the platform and create a feeling of hope. It can work. It is so simple and obvious. Why can't mega corporations do the obvious is I guess subject for another day...

It just doesn't have to be this difficult. Respect people if you want them to be with you for the long haul.

It's a bit surreal to think that Microsoft may not be interested in doing the things that will truly give them mass appeal. They have tons of cash in the bank and they are still worried about maintaining control over "their" device.

Are they completely losing touch?

Jed Hubic
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This is cool, now instead of publishers complaining about how it affects them, they can make the choice and show some numbers without drm and passcodes hopefully.

John Flush
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This is probably the only thing positive to come out of it... hopefully next gen doesn't have the "used is killing us" scapegoat. It will finally be a clear indicator that the masses have moved on and just don't bother playing anymore.

Jamie Madigan
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I like how straight forward MS is being here and telling us exactly what we get without using PR speak or other wishy-washy language. They even come out and say "Yo, we may change any of this at some time in the future, so ...keep that in mind." That said, I'm still disappointed you can't borrow games --not from a rental service, not from a friend, not from a library. You can give or sell games, but you can't borrow. Bummer.

TC Weidner
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I disagree this is all PR speak.

Jannis Froese
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In case you have less than 10 interested family members, you can just configure your best buddy as a family member. Than you automatically share all games with him. Doesn't that sound even better than borrowing a disk? I am sure MS won't ask for your birth certificate as proof that somebody is in your bloodline.

Now we just have to hope that this really works out like that.

Bernardo Del Castillo
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I cant tell if you are being ironic.. or just haven't actually read the whole thing...
I sure hope so, because this is by far the most defensive PR ridden, nebulous, inexact ("we might change everything if the backlash is too big"). ADDED is the fact that they have cancelled all press information events other than the main show, it does not speak of clarity... there is nothing straight forward about this.

Sure this might not be Microsoft's idea, this may be publisher pressure, but it doesn't make it OK, they are treading a really dangerous ground taking advantage of how badly defined digital ownership rights are in most countries still. I wonder what they'll have to do to adapt this model and make it viable in some European countries, where there are some consumer protection software ownership laws. Or maybe they just don't care about selling outside the US...

Mario Kummer
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@Bernardo: I live in europe and expect MS to get more trouble this generation. US seem to be more willing to accept all this. Besides the law aspects I think europeans will be more sensitive to the whole surveillance thing, especially when the US government claims that the US citizens don't need to worry about they prism program, it is just agains people from foreign countries.
And of course as usual half of the things the Xbox One offers will not work in europe.

Bernardo Del Castillo
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@Mario

I'm currently living in Chile, and I'm 100% certain that Xbone won't work with established systems at all... so I know the feels.
I'm guessing they are aiming to sustain themselves with solely the US market.

Joe Zachery
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This is only the beginning. I can't wait for Sony to show us their version of this plan. I do have one question what will this do to places like GameFly are the done?

Rashaad Johnson
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Well sadly with the fact that they clearly stated that there's going to be NO RENTAL ability in the beginning, this going to put a damper on Gamefly's sales and services for all next-gen consoles, and this shall also put a dent into Gamestop's powerup program and used game system.

This is all being done so that the publishers get all the money they're rightfully due (in their minds). My only issue with this is that, when it comes down to them having a crappy game and the publisher BANS resale, I'm now stuck with a game I DON'T WANT practically forever, because now everyone will be on EBAY, AMAZON, etc trying to get rid of the game while stating "INSTALLED ONCE" or "NEVER INSTALLED" and pray that they get someone to buy the game.

So if this what's going to happen, then these publishers need to do with their AAA games like they do with their Arcade games and some titles and make EVERY TITLE that's to be published, have a demo that comes out to be played, so we the buyers know what we're getting into.

Also I wonder if this is going to apply to current-gen consoles as well, being that from what I've seen on GameFaqs, and the pre-orders I have at Gamestop, they're going to be selling games for the current gen until at least next summer.

Dan the gaming Guy
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This whole idea of digital ownership is fleeting. Even if you own a $60 disk copy of a game, just look at the 30 page EULA stating everything you cannot do with what you just purchased, and all the rights they have to drop support at any time. The idea of fighting for ownership of game media is stupid IMO. You are fighting for an idea of ownership.

I suggest everything just be subscription. You want to play a game, charge a per hour rate. Amazing new single player game - $5ph (example), then lower the price as interest drops or have deals on it. Replayable MP games should have their own rates $1ph (for example).

F2P option should be there too.

This is a much better model for pricing products based on their quality so that the mid and low budget games get some revenue too (as no one is going to pay $60 for mid/low quality). But there might be some fun in there worth $0.5 per hour.

As for the brick and mortar retailers, sorry guys, my loyalty is with the developers who create the game, not the middle men marking up the price.

Hakim Boukellif
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Subscriptions only last for as long as the service you're subscribed to operates. Since no service lasts forever, that's not a solution that's viable in the long term and even in the short term can be affected by the economic condition of the companies involved and all sorts legal hoo-hah (losing licenses, getting sued for releasing a game with "offensive" content and losing in court etc.). And that's putting aside that "Thou shalt not develop an application that's fully dependent on an external service unless that dependency is necessary for the functioning of said application." is a commandment in like every system of ethics conceivable. Well, it ought to be, anyway.

Besides, no EULA or TOS can (or at least, should be able to) override someone's rights, so it's fight worth fighting even if only out of principle.

Nick Harris
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When I rent a movie on Sky+HD Box Office I get to see it as many times as I like for 24 hours. Surely, Microsoft could rent digital downloaded content for 24 hours of discontinuous play time - that way, you could switch between lots of downloaded games playing a little of each as your mood dictated and not be concerned that you had to finish all of them in a day.

A game like Call of Duty: Ghosts would come out as a launch day demo (not a beta, but final code), you would download this for free and see if you liked the style of the campaign, it may well include an early training level to orient you to the controls and operation of the weapons, at some point just after the first climactic proper level when it had whet your appetite it would do as current XBLA and XBLIG games do now on the 360 and give you the choice to continue with the game keeping your points, progress and achievements by paying to unlock either the next episode of the game (if that option were provided), or the rest of the campaign. If you didn't like it, or weren't in a position to afford to pay for it right then you would exit to the home screen and would be free to re-evaluate the demo another time. Finishing the final episode of the campaign could unlock multiplayer as a bonus gift / incentive. Alternatively, the multiplayer could be rented separately on a monthly basis, not reduce in price over time, but automatically download every map pack as they came out, rewarding the community for their loyalty and making the game more attractive to latecomers. Every player would have the same maps, so there would be no problems with matchmaking. Obviously, the monthly rental would be about a tenth of the cost of a full sale, estimating a lifetime of a year for that product.

Publishers overly reliant on making short campaigns would have to switch to soap opera style indefinite episodic adventures, or switch to making open worlds with deep simulations that led to emergent gameplay, otherwise they would only have each customer make one rental and be shocked that they didn't need to rent again to continue with their game because they had completed it over a long weekend. It would ultimately be their fault that they were sticking to a linear sequence of levels, scripted AI and a predetermined narrative, rather than taking full advantage of the medium and making something with actual replay value. Now that games are rented it wouldn't matter that players spent hours and days of play time in a particular world as they would need to renew their 'subscription' on a semi-regular basis. Some form of statistics on the average rate of completion ought to be provided by Microsoft to the Publishers to give them an idea when to drop prices to stimulate sales - anonymized, of course.

Jonathan Murphy
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How is this official? I'm even more confused? RIP Gamefly.

Michael Pianta
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Now I know why third parties aren't supporting the Wii U.

Kujel s
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Sad but true, corporationism strikes again.

Mario Kummer
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I wonder if this still can motivate consumers to support the Wii U. Would be interesting to see what happens when companies would support PS4/XboxOne and players the Wii U ;)

Dane MacMahon
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I'm not a console gamer so this doesn't effect me, though I would not buy it on principle anyway at this point.

As a PC gamer though I see a lot of comparisons to Steam, which I think is faulty for several reasons:

1) Steam has a very good offline mode. I once worked overseas for a year and for each 5+ month semester I kept Steam in offline mode the whole time and it never gave me problems. Quite the difference from needing a check every 24 hours.

2) I don't trust MS to be as competitive price-wise as Valve are on software, and perhaps more importantly I don't think the competition for online purchases will be there to drive prices low enough to consider it a rented license "but that's okay."

3) The PC gamer community has proven they will do what it takes to keep classics playable in the future. I'm not shouting "go piracy!" at all here, but the fact is if Steam shuts down someday without an offline patch I still trust Skyrim will work, because PC gamers will make it work. A closed platform with 24 hour internet checks tied to Microsoft servers, however? Every game I bought would feel temporary and not long for this world.

Garth Algar
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I don't trust MS to keep their services constantly online. Actually, I don't trust any game-related company in doing so. Not even Steam can provide such a service, but at least Steam's got an offline mode, so it doesn't matter.

Bob Johnson
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IT's all much ado about nothing.

IF the games are great at a price that is right then you're going to buy an Xbox One or a PS4 to play those games regardless of the various minor details of these company policies which are always subject to change.

The relatively few exceptions notwithstanding.


Nick Dorazio
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If some smart dev would create a Paypal like service that allowed me to transfer payment to Microsoft in such a way that I could place restrictions on how Microsoft might later exchange the money I gave them for goods and services, I would sign up.

Mario Kummer
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@Nick - lol best answer to the whole used game topic that I ever read. Great! It could be called the "used money" issue. The money was already used to buy their games, its not fair that they can use it again ;)

Gian Dominguez
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Obviously this will be the norm of the future, unless if people dont buy this console in droves. I am not exactly hopeful with regards to this console generation.

Thom Q
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I love how Microsoft gives all these bullet points on their Xbox One site, like they are great new features that are all great for the customer, while in actuality, the customer will be rimmed even harder then before.

One of the greatest bullet points must be this one:

" *) Share acces to your games with everyone in your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited acces to all of your games. "

Hahah, wtf. What, customers should be glad the Kinect isn't picking up that you passed the controller to your friend, and Isn't asking for a couple of $'s when doing so?


All in all, this generation will be the death of one, if not All the consoles. In times of economic downturns and decreasing retail sales, all the console market can come up with is slightly better hardware, price increases for hardware & games, more DRM like systems and the destruction of 2nd hand games, share buttons & touchpads.

IMO, only way to maintain the console market would be to keep the consoles at Least cheaper then a decent gaming PC, decrease the price for games, and make it easier for customers to buy & play the games. I'd say a steam-like digital distribution system, and a seperate disc-based retail option, where you pay a bit more, but have the physical product itself, which you can then re-sell, lend, do whatever you want with it. Keep your digital downloads priced cheap enough to compete with the 2nd-hand retail market.

And, offer new games / gameplay. You don't even have to think of "new" ones, maybe start with trying to get the most popular MMO's on consoles, and think of some way of controlling those games (touchpad anyone?)..


All in all I think it's evident that this money grab they call the new generation is one, made by the market big-wigs, as a last death-stutter to try and squeeze as much money out of it as possible..

Mario Kummer
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Yea. I laughed too at this one. I wonder if this even was the initial plan or just a result of the outcry. The console market is already in decline, and it may already be due to high prices and DLCs. Could very well be that you are right and this generation will be the end of all consoles. It will be very interesting to watch the sales numbers next year. I think everything can happen. That users switch to pc/mobil or stay with their PS3/Xbox360 and the DRM consoles don't sell at all. Or that they sell like hell and all the concerns that a lot of people mention are not important at all.
But the game market has shown that it does not just except everything. The consumers forced price cuts on the Xbox1, PS3 and 3DS and the WiiU and Vita are in a position were you can see that the consumers are not excited by what is offered.

Titi Naburu
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"One of the greatest bullet points must be this one:

" *) Share acces to your games with everyone in your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited acces to all of your games. "

Hahah, wtf. What, customers should be glad the Kinect isn't picking up that you passed the controller to your friend, and Isn't asking for a couple of $'s when doing so?

Actually, you forgot this:

"We may also cease to offer certain services or products"

They have a patent that would prevent non-buyers to play a game.

Mario Kummer
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Angry Joes Rant, its a bit long but very funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryB-hdtpQRw

he also has some good points and also talks about this bullet point, start at minute 11 if you don't want to watch it all.

Brandon Maynes
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This is pure trash, I refuse to buy something that I cant trade to someone for a few days. I will never purchase another Xbox console. I will enjoy watching the new MS/xbox go down in flames.

Sean Kiley
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This system reads like a checklist of all the corporate corner offices in entertainment. It is designed for maximum control of content and user data retrieval, including the ability to take snapshots with the camera to see who is playing (demographically) Banjo-Kazooie or who is watching the NFL.

I hope the top down design doesn't create a system that is frustrating for the end user, but I'm not holding my breath.

Ozzie Smith
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So this pretty much kills gamefly and redbox games, right?

Ed Macauley
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I see two options:

1) They're dead Jim.

2) They are able to negotiate some sort of deal with publishers to continue to allow rentals and share the revenue. (Similar to what happened with Redbox/Netflix and certain movie studios)

Bruce Baxter
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Well actually they might only be dead to Microsoft - which means Microfluff gaming will die. If Sony and Nintendo do not go with this scheme - IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER - they will save the retailers and Microslob (Xbox One) will die of irrelevance. BUT, if they follow suit then it may kill off the retailers.

Bob Johnson
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GAmers are weak. Fast forward 6 months to the release of a super well reviewed must play game and you will see all these complaints slide off the collective backs of gamers like water slides off a duck's feathers.

MS isn't asking anyone to kill their first born. It's just a price increase.

Bernardo Del Castillo
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its true... but you know.. I hope there's more people like me...
If SONY shows "the last guardian" Which is probably my most wanted game for years, but also announces that the ps4 adheres to this ridicule, I won't buy either console next year.

Sure their market is impulsive teenagers but I think there's a few thinking beings around that can stand ground when something is as toxic as this.

Mario Kummer
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And I think when you say the marked is impulsive teenagers, they have more time then money. So they will be price sensitive and maybe invest their time in finding other ways to get the games. I already said it somewhere but "just a price increase" is nothing unimportant in the games industry, the customers forced price cuts and sometimes even early adopter compensation programs for: Xbox1, PS3, 3DS. This is a market which stops buying when the price is not right.

Erin OConnor
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Nice to see that the hardware manufacturers and game publishers are leading the charge to kill gaming.

Funny thing is all Valve needs to do with their steam box is sit back, takes notes, and release a better product.

And yes. At some point in the near future you will have the ability to buy and sell (used) games on the steam market place.

Jannis Froese
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>At some point in the near future you will have the ability to buy and sell (used) games on the steam market place.

The funny thing is: I haven't seen anybody ask for that feature on steam (also, I doubt Valve would implement it, that would give tons of problems with offline mode)

Nick Harris
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I'm trying to imagine Microsoft best possible PR spin on ONE at E3:

- Automagically reconnects, Patches itself and Recharges pad whilst sleeping
- Multimedia Jukebox switches instantly between Music, Movies, TV and Installed Games
- Try : Download and rate free demos
- Trade : Delete a game for an install key
- Share : Recommend a game to a friend
- Collect : Download complete Indie games
- Acquire : Download free-to-play MMOs and pay to aquire items
- Stopwatch : Rent AAA campaign titles for 24 hours of discontinuous play time
- Subscribe : Rent AAA multiplayer titles for a month at a time and recieve DLC for loyalty
- Validate : Play a campaign offline that is installed on your HDD by re-inserting its Blu-ray disc

Bruce Baxter
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I'm still in awe of how a company with so many intelligent minds can come up with such a dumb scheme. They act like they forgot there is competition out there, and they own the game industry. It's stupid, inconsiderate and it's going to bite them firmly in their backsides.

brad coleman
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A whole bunch of what the suck? The more I hear about the Xbox one the more I decide to stay away.

Mario Kummer
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They have already proven that they are capable of screwing up by not listening to their customers ;)
I have the impression that they try to be like apple "we do what we want because we know better", but it does not work out for them.

Amir Sharar
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The comparisons to Steam, iOS and Android are apt from a consumer's point of view. This is MS taking the entire App model and applying it to what we (used to) call 'retail games'. So as far as the consumer is concerned, this is much like Steam were a license is purchased and their games cannot be resold or traded.

It is clearly a Microsoft variant of those online stores, a bit harsher in some ways (daily authentication required), and bit more generous (up to 10 people have access to the library of games). Overall harsher, from my perspective, due to rampant authentication.

What this also essentially implies is that the game disc is simply a delivery model for content and not the content itself, at least in MS's eyes. The disc is a license in physical format, along with data to get you started.

This model would technically eliminate the possibility of used games, and so I think MS had to shoe-horn a solution here for that, which is resulting in the hot mess we're seeing today with these rules in regards to used titles. You are trading licenses, not game discs. Had Valve, Apple, or Google attempted to implement something similar on their systems, I figure it would have been messy as well.

It results in a few consumer benefits (disc less play, play your games from anyone's Xbox even if you don't have the discs, easy game sharing within a household), but I would argue that these pros are outweighed by the jarring paradigm shift for existing consumers.

I would also argue that this has less to do with catering to content providers, and more to do with MS's vision of software distribution in general. We all saw when they claimed that Digital Distribution was the future early on in the 360's life (I believe it was part of their justification for not including BluRay drives for BR movies on their console). MS has been touting this for nearly 10 years, so I feel this has much more to do with them than say, EA or Activision.

What people have to realize is that this model has worked to a great degree for other products (though these products have a key difference which I'll get into later). It has worked for games, movies, books, and music on the iOS, Android, and Steam platforms. It has worked for games, movies and music on the PS3 and 360.

We have to realize that we share some of the blame when us consumers put billions of dollars into digital products that are not resharable and resellable. And if it wasn't you, it was your neighbor that purchased "A Clash of Kings" without caring about whether she could resell it or not.

The key difference here being (and the one that I think will bite MS in the ass) is that the above mentioned purchases of digitally-restricted books, movies, music and games are largely all below the $15 point. I don't have any scientific basis for this, but I'd like to think that our ability to care about reselling or trading a product is directly related to our investment in it. I don't care about reselling my purchase of Blood Dragon, but I do about Far Cry 3, because of the investment difference. Yes, Steam's successful selling of $60 games contradicts what I'm saying here, but I'd wager that of the billions of dollars of non-resellable products on all digital platforms, these $60 PC titles make up a small percentage of it.

To a large degree I can't help but think that I'd be a hypocrite in saying that this model is wrong and worth boycotting. I've bought into it on XBLA, PSN, the iStore, Google Play, and Steam.

On the other hand, maybe I'm feeling that there's something wrong with MS's implementation of the model, rather than with the model itself.

Mario Kummer
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Everyones time has a value. I think most people would not resell an iOS game because the money is not worth the time for doing it. Everyone will have a certain limit, the future will show if Microsoft wants too much. I think that is the case and Steam is an odd example because if you want you can buy very cheap on steam, you more or less pay full price to have the privilege of playing early.
On the other side the games audience consists of fans and enthusiasts which might accept everything if they love a product. But 3DS, Xbox1 and PS3 have shown that the market is very price sensitive.
I think what they are now doing is shrinking the audience but trying to get more money from remaining costumers. And we will continue to hear more and more stories that only the best of the AAA are still able to make money and the rest is lost.
Everything is now up to Sony, they have the choice to destroy the XboxOne or the Console marked as we know it.

Jeff Fischer
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I'm curious to see if Microsoft is planning on offering the same kind of sales and deals that Steam offers. If the industry makes some moves towards competitive pricing for games then DRM on every game will be a much easier pill to swallow.

The problem is the console market has fixed the prices on their products. Games you actually want to play will be $60 and with and extra $10-20 charge to unlock all the content on the disc. Nintendo is slightly cheaper but caters to entirely different gaming niches. I think a major contributor to the rise of the used game market (and the rise of piracy and console-modding) is that fact that in any given month you would easily have to drop $120-$180 to pick up the new games you may want to pay.


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