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Q&A:  Hearthstone 's small-team success at big-time Blizzard
Q&A: Hearthstone's small-team success at big-time Blizzard Exclusive
March 10, 2014 | By Alex Wawro

March 10, 2014 | By Alex Wawro
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    7 comments
More: Console/PC, Design, Exclusive



Hearthstone is a first for Blizzard in a lot of ways -- it's the company's first mobile game, its first free-to-play game, and the first game the company has announced and launched (albeit in closed beta) within the same calendar year.

For Eric Dodds, a Blizzard veteran who previously worked on big games like World of Warcraft and Diablo 3 before serving as lead designer on Hearthstone, it's also the first project that inspired him to pitch a GDC talk.

Dodds is scheduled to speak at GDC next week about design lessons learned from trying to design a free-to-play collectible card game that's purely digital, yet deeply influenced by physical games.

During a recent interview with Gamasutra, Dodds opened up about some of those design influences and explained how the small team behind Hearthstone is a significant departure from Blizzard's typical approach to development.

What was the genesis of Hearthstone, as a project?

Eric Dodd: It came from a couple of different directions. One of them was folks at Blizzard looking at the way we operated and often seeing these projects that we are very excited about pursuing, but unable to pursue because we have these very large teams working on these very large projects that take a very long time. We sort of figured it would be cool to have these small projects that we could actually tackle, so in the beginning we had a team that was a little experimental, a smaller team that could hopefully get things done a little bit faster.

That was the genesis of the team; the genesis of Hearthstone as a collectible card game was mostly that we loved collectible card games. We have played CCGs at Blizzard from the very beginning, have been very passionate about them for a very long time, and have long felt that they are so awesome that itís sort of crazy more people arenít playing them. So we thought it would be great if we could figure out a way to bring CCGs to more people, and Hearthstone started by merging a very small, experimental team with an institutional love of CCGs.

How big is the Hearthstone team, and how does that compare to the typical Blizzard team?

The Hearthstone team has been growing a bit, so I think weíre at about 20 people now. But if you look at other teams at Blizzard, theyíre much larger. I think when we shipped World of Warcraft it was at 60, and now itís certainly way over 100. Diablo is probably around 80-100, something like that, so Hearthstone is significantly smaller, and for most of development we were actually more like 12-15 people. So Hearthstoneís team is dramatically smaller; Iíve worked on many of the larger teams at Blizzard, and it feels very different to work on Hearthstone.

How so?

For me itís been very exciting! I worked on World of Warcraft for a very long time, then I moved onto Diablo 3 for a little while, and at the time I remember saying something about how excited I was to move over to a smaller team. Of course, to many other folks in the industry that seemed pretty funny, since the Diablo 3 development team was only ďsmallĒ when compared to World of Warcraftís mammoth team.

"It's important to remember to look at the core tenets of [a given] genre, because players already understand them, they enjoy them, and it gives new players a huge leg up when they come in and try to learn your game for the first time."


Then I moved over to Hearthstone, and the great thing about that team is that everyone on the project can be involved at all levels. Weíre all in the same design pit, and so when Iím arguing with someone about a point of design, pretty much everyone else on the team can hear it. And if someone has an opinion, they come right over and get involved. Itís fantastic to have a game where everyone on the team is involved with multiple aspects of the game; weíre already a team of generalists, with designer-artists and programmer-designers and the like, but the small team fosters an environment where everyone gets intrinsically involved in everyone elseís business, and I think it made for a better game.

Do you think the design principles and lessons you learned on Hearthstone are applicable to other development teams, regardless of size?

I think many of them are applicable to teams of all sizes. Many of the things we learned arenít specific to Hearthstone specifically; heck, I think much of what we learned can be applied to other types of games. Iím an avid board gamer, I play role-playing games, and all kinds of different games, and a lot of what we learned are just general game design maxims that worked out well not just for Hearthstone, but for all types of games.

Can you be more specific?

Well, one of the things that I learned while working on Hearthstone is the importance of making sure that you donít deviate too much from the genre that youíre working within. Thereís a tendency to take a game and really make it your own, and I think itís important to remember to look at the core tenets of that genre, because players already understand them, they enjoy them, and it gives new players a huge leg up when they come in and try to learn your game for the first time.

How did it feel to try and build a digital version of a physical card game?

I think it was actually pretty liberating, because one of the things that was important to us was to make a game optimized for the digital space. Thereís a lot of things we love about physical card games, but there are definitely some things that are, uhh, ďnon-optimalĒ about them as well. It was very exciting to look at some of those troublesome areas and work out how to fix them and make the game more awesome. We can never make a physical version of Hearthstone, because we made a bunch of design choices that require it to be digital, and I love it.

Are there any other physical games you wish someone would translate to digital?

Actually, they are making a digital version of one of my favorite board games: Galaxy Truckers. My understanding is that someone is working on an iPad version, and Iím pretty excited about that!

Where do you see the free-to-play market headed in the future, and how is Hearthstone a part of that?

When weíre making a game we donít focus on the financial model -- we focus on what the game is all about, and that implies what the financial model should be. Itís not like we started to make Hearthstone with the intent to make a free-to-play game; we set out to make a collectible card game, and as we started to set our stakes in the ground -- we wanted a game that everyone had access to, you know, stuff along that lines -- it made sense to make it a free-to-play game. I donít really have a sense of where the free-to-play market is going; I just know that model was a fantastic fit for Hearthstone. So I donít think Hearthstone is -- at least on Blizzardís part -- really indicative of what the future holds; itís more indicative of whatís best for Hearthstone.

Do you think Blizzard will continue to field small teams alongside larger teams? Would you consider the work you've done on Hearthstone proof that such a model is successful?

Iíd like to think so. I donít know for sure, but Hearthstone is looking like it will be pretty successful, and so Iíd like to think that weíll do more stuff like that. But you know, itís hard to predict the future.


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Comments


David Paris
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I admit I am kind of surprised at how slow the progress on Hearthstone development seems to be. They've been plugging away in beta for quite some while now, but the same bugs remain (including some really gruesomely painful connectivity issues), and only the simplest of new features make it out the door. Their big additions for the next release (following months of nothing) is... new card back artworks and animated hero icons. That's some art time and a microscopic bit of code. I can only hope 'adventure' mode is amazing when it finally comes out. They haven't been doing much in the way of balance changing (in fact they seem scared of it, which is a pretty disturbing approach to online competitive gaming), so I really wonder what they've been spending their time working on.

Don't get me wrong, I want Hearthstone to be wonderful and succeed, but as a player I'm really concerned about what I see. As a developer I mostly just scratch my head about where they're spending all their time and energy, since it really isn't visible to the outside. Is Hearthstone going to dazzle us with some new release? I hope so, but if so they are really hiding it. It kind of feels like opportunity being lost.

Andreas Ahlborn
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Either the article is misleading or I am not understading it right. Maybe someone can help me out on this?

What does Mr. Dodd mean with "Small Team"? What are their tasks exactly? Does he count to that team all the guys who are responsible for server maintenace, community management, monteization, PR etc.? Or are all these things (which take a huge chunk of manpower out of the a real small "indie" team) provided by Mighty Mother Blizzard?

If so, I wouldnt really call it a small team, more of a separate dpt. inside Blizzzard that is largely nursed by the foundations wow, starcraft et al. already provided for them.

It`s understandable that Blizzard wants to get some good PR in an interview with gama by claiming "We are the indy-portion of this huge mega-corporation" but its also kind of condescending to any reader who comes from the developer side.

Similar to David above I enjoyed Hearthstone a while until I realized that the kind of "odd charme" Hearthstone has in contrast to other Blizzard products is solely for target device reasons. But the Money Milking Machine behind it is the same you would expect in a F2P Diablo/WOW game, only Hearthstone doesnt even try to hide that it is "Pay2Win" for Bored Whales who are looking for sth to burn money on.

Lets also be honest that its a testing playground for WOW becoming F2P if subscriptions keep dropping.


Its a real shame, too, because - as an upfront paid game for even 20/30$ with maybe monthly subscription when you want to do ranked games Hearthstone would be GOTY material in my eyes (the gameply/design is THAT good), as it stands the amount of money required to unlock all content is somwhere at

2000-3000 $

If you wanted to unlock everything simply by playing and dont purchase anything
you would have to win

40-50.000 games (:=PLAYTIME: 8000 hh)

thats just cruel Mr. Dodds, in comparison
to the 100+ hours you have to invest in WOW to get to the endgame content.
What were you thinking?




Zach Grant
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I've ditch Magic the Gathering Online altogether after playing Hearthstone. The streamlined mechanics are great and you can easily get around the pay to win mechanics by playing arena.

Now if only arena offered awards that benefited arena players instead of constructed players. If I never had to touch constructed again, I'd be a happy gamer.

Andreas Ahlborn
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you forget to mention that every arena costs money or gold (which you can only get for free in constructed). Theoretically you can finance arenas from winning at least 6 or 7 games every time, but that never happens for beginners (i play a month and my highest were 5 wins which didnt even give me rewards enough to play another arena)
and even if you mamange to go 12:3 you will at max get one cardpack.

Granted the game is fun even if you loose, but as a whole it just has a very bad ROI-curve build in to make sure Blizzard gets Profits as Fat as Smough

Sean Francis-Lyon
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Andreas: You forgot the bonuses and 'quests' which give you free gold in Arena as well as Constructed. If you excel at the game you can break even playing Arena. I break even playing 2/3 to 3/4 of my games in Arena and I have never got past 7 wins in an Arena run (I would guess my average is around 4 or 5).

Andreas Ahlborn
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with "bonus" you mean the 10 gold you receive after three wins?

"If you excel at the game you can break even playing Arena"

I already admited that ("theoretically you can finance arenas from winning at least 6 or 7 games every time").

But Iīm not interested in the 1% top players that play cardgames on a semipro level or the 1% that can ditch out 500$ for packs without blinking, but the 98% casual, average players that would benefit greatly from upfront/subscription monetization that would get rid of the ugly pay2win model behind Hearthstone in its current form.

Chris Clogg
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I wish I liked card games more (didn't really enjoy Hearthstone for this reason), because it sounds like it's really good for those who do like that genre.

Either way, I'm pretty excited that Blizz is updating Warcraft 1 & 2. Will be cool to see what other smaller projects they churn out.


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