Wow ... 70-80% ...

"We have something like 70 percent or 80 percent of the publishers in the world already doing Natal-based games"

Wow...b/c that is total BS.
Why not say something defensible like 70-80% of XBOX publishers?
There aren't even 70-80% of publishers in the world making games for the Xbox.

Natal I hope will be awesome, but the hype train is traveling through worlds of hyperbole that are as imaginary as they are ridiculous.

Did you do some investigative reporting Russell? No gurantee that those publishers will actually publish those games in that quote, just that they are working on them, which is pretty realistic. I'm pretty certain that 2k, Ubisoft, Activision and EA are going to put out Natal games, even if they are going to basically be Wii ports. I think he meant publishers in the console business, excepting SCE and Nintendo, of course.
And, I think the hype train is what is driving publisher interest in Natal, as it has clearly caught the attention of the gaming and even non-gaming media.

I agree Jonathan, but I had the same thought as Russell. If some big names (like Vavle or the ones already mentioned in the comments) were mentioned then the hype machine wouldn't seem so shallow.

I'm still excited about Natal, and I don't think that will change until I hear the price.

Right, I do think they talked about publishers rather than developers (I think they have named dropped publishers before, in Spetember see http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=092409_5) for a reason, as probably most of the games aren't coming from devs like Valve or Bioware.
I think Natal has a ton of potential, but it can certainly flop too. The price point for the hardware, the price point for the software are going to have a huge impact on its adoption and or success. My guess is they are going to use the Natal to keep the $300 SKU next holiday (bundled with Natal).

If its that many, then we'll see this at E3 right? Not that I doubt the word of Microsoft, just that I doubt the anonymous hype.

Remember this is publishers not developers. I still think Russell is probably right that this is 70% of xbox publishers (it's obviously not 70% of *ALL* publishers since less than 70% of publishers publish video games let alone console video games).

I too call Shenanigans but agree with Sean's more likely interpretation.

But is anyone really surprised that a console maker plays the hype game and selectively manipulates data to their advantage? I expect the real Sony/Microsoft BS for the new the motion control peripherals is only now just getting started and we will be knee deep by Fall.

Sean,

I think Russell is still referring to video game publishers, not "all" publishers. His point is there are many, many, many game publishers outside of the frequently-cited major ones like EA, THQ, Activision, and so on.

The original article is a interview with a exec from Microsoft, it says it all, so 70% of the "publisher that are already partner with Microsoft" will produce Natal game... just my 2 cent.

That seems like a lot considering it is a mid-console life peripheral add-on. I don't know if it is my memory, but I can't think of a single peripheral that came out mid-console cycle that wasn't quickly forgotten and not worth developing for. Maybe this huge hype engine, fake numbers and all, is just the push it needs to not become the next rumble pack, power pad, 32X, M+, or balance board. I think those expecting it to be the revitalization of the X360 are sorely mistaken and I hope they don't go under to basing their livelihood on it.

There's a lot in the qoute "... 70 percent or 80 percent of the publishers in the world already doing Natal-based games," that can be questioned and reduced. Apart from the reasons already mentioned, it's also the aspect that a publisher may be counted into this that's doing one, or a handful, Natal-based titles. As someone mentioned, it's not certain that product reaches the market, or does so with Natal. More importantly (imo), a publisher doing a natal-based game it can still be one or two of fifty (I dunno the number of games a publisher releases a year).

That mean this number could be a percentage of the other games in development. Or it could be a lot. It doesn't really say anything.

The Rumble pack got alot of support, but that was also because it was optional for most games.

I expect natal to do well, but probably not be adopted by more than 20% of Xbox owners.

This is very typical of Microsoft's propaganda efforts, especially lately. Electronic press is even more abhorrent with its lack of fact checking than print press, and Microsoft has learned to take full advantage. Honestly, shame on anyone taking Microsoft propaganda at its word and printing it. I love you Gamasutra, but this is our business, and its serious.

1. Console Peripherals have NEVER succeeded unless sales were driven by a wildly popular title which is available with the launch of the peripheral (see Guitar Hero, Wii Fit)
2. The 70-80% figure is (A) BS, and (B) applies to studios sand boxing some natal based concepts at the very best - not announced titles.

My best guess is you'll see about five to ten natal based games, not a single triple A title from a third party developer, and not more than one triple A title from MS itself before the natal peripheral goes the way of the HD DVD drive.

@ Russell Carroll :

"Wow...b/c that is total BS."

Now why don't you tell us exactly what is BS about it then?


"Why not say something defensible like 70-80% of XBOX publishers? "

Where is the indefensible part?
If 70-80% of publishers are working on Natal games, Robie Bach (who would know about that), shouldn't mention it, because someone called Russell Carroll is going to be annoyed about it?

"There aren't even 70-80% of publishers in the world making games for the Xbox "

No why don't you prove that?
Name me even one major 3rd party game maker who is not making games for the XBOX 360. Far more 3rd party games are sold on the 360 (by revenue), than on any other plaform. If you are not making games for the 360, what platform you gonna be making games for?

I feel sorry for all of those publishers. If the hardcore really wanted motion control, then they would own a Wii and play games like Madworld. We already know that games like this do not sell on the Wii, so we should not expect them to sell on the XBox360 either.

@ Richard Putney:

" This is very typical of Microsoft's propaganda efforts, especially lately "

Perhaps you'll tell us exactly what is incorrect about this piece, yes?

"1. Console Peripherals have NEVER succeeded unless sales were driven by a wildly popular title which is available with the launch of the peripheral (see Guitar Hero, Wii Fit)"

Ummm....from all reports, Natal is going to be bundled with XBOX 360 SKU's, so that when you buy an XBOX 360, you will in effect have already bought Natal, kinda like how Wii Sports was bundled with the Wii. It's going to be simple for Microsoft to bundle a Natal game with the Natal XBOX 360 bundles.

" The 70-80% figure is (A) BS, and (B) applies to studios sand boxing some natal based concepts at the very best - not announced titles."

Perhaps you have deeper contacts with 3rd party developerrs than Robbie Bach, the head of Microsoft E & D, does , yes?
Here you are, with totally no sources or proof whatsoever, making wild claims, that you can't even come close to being able to prove.


"My best guess is you'll see about five to ten natal based games, not a single triple A title from a third party developer, "

And your best guess is based on what exactly?
You put your finger in the air, use a voodoo doll and come up with wild, made up, figures?
Of course there will be vastly more than 5 to 10 Natal games.
You have not been paying attention to Natal related announcements.


"not more than one triple A title from MS itself before the natal peripheral goes the way of the HD DVD drive"

One big difference, the xbox 360 HD DVD was NOT bundled with the XBOX 360. Natal WILL be bundled with the XBOX 360.

@ John Gordon

". If the hardcore really wanted motion control, then they would own a Wii and play games like Madworld."

The hardcore wouldn't buy Madworld even if it was on the 360 or PS3. They'd much rather buy MW2, Assassin's Creed, Halo 3, etc.
Let's see some Natal use put in already popular hardcore games, then decide if hardcore gamers will buy it or not, shall we?

"We already know that games like this do not sell on the Wii, so we should not expect them to sell on the XBox360 either "

Wrong analysis.
Hardcore games, with or without motion control, already sell far better on the 360/PS3 than on the Wii. The demographics of the 360 and the Wii owners are quite different.

I really have to rant and express my NERD RAGE:

Can we go back to a time BEFORE "hardcore" was shoved down our throats by the media and every wannabe internet dweeb? An entire generation of a younger gamers have been indoctrinated into believing that HARDCORE is the end all and that if that term isn't present, a GAME isn't worth playing. It's rather ironic that some of these guys define themselves as such, when a majority of games now days -- especially on current consoles -- take very little skill and time to complete.

Where did this naive assumption come from that if someone games on a Wii, they don't game on a 360 or a PC as an example?

If there is such thing as a hardcore gamer, it's the guy that owns multiple consoles and a PC along with a massive collection of games. Someone that likes variety and wants to play it all and that's all they do. Not some Smurf that owns a XBox, Halo, and a few other so-called hardcore games, which when it comes down to it are just mainstream fluff.

This whole hardcore thing is really silly when it comes down to it. The sooner it goes the way of "EXTREME," the sooner it can no longer be used as a form of segregation, and the sooner we can all get back to gaming.

Anyways, back to NATAL. I call it the "Poor Man's Peripheral."

@ Chris Melby

"Where did this naive assumption come from that if someone games on a Wii, they don't game on a 360 or a PC as an example"

Ummm...from geriatric Wii users like these ones:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/23/nintendos-wii-a-hit-with-the-geriatric-set/

and 84 year old Wii users like from this Wii competition:
http://www.switched.com/2008/01/04/geriatric-wii-tournament-crowns-84-year-old-w
inner/

There is no question that millions of very old folks in retirement homes accross the country, have bought Wii's and play Wii's often. There is simply no way these Wii playing geriatrics play hard core games like Call of Duty or Halo. They usually play Wii sports, Wii Play etc.
And while the Wii is popular in retirement homes in Florida, you hardly ever find XBOX 360's are PS3's in these old folks homes.


"If there is such thing as a hardcore gamer, it's the guy that owns multiple consoles and a PC along with a massive collection of games"

I would say the hard core gammer is the gammer that plays pretty complex games like Halo, Call of Duty, Left4Dead which require following some pretty complex button sequences and instructions, and who in addition spend a pretty high number of hours playing video games every week. Usually, we'd be talking about young adult males from say 15 to 30.
Wii Playing 84 year old geriatrics who can barely stay up for even 2 hours straight without going to sleep, need not apply.


"This whole hardcore thing is really silly when it comes down to it"

Makes plenty of sense to me.


"The sooner it goes the way of "EXTREME,"

The term is not going anywhere.
Nintendo themselves use the term "hard core games" when talking about all the spate of well.. hard core games that have bombed last year on the Wii, like HoD OverKill, Madworld, The Conduit etc.
And only recently, Sega came out and said, they wouldn't be making any more new 'hard core" games for the Wii.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/01/04/sega-probably-not-making-more-hardcore-wii-gam
es/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fjoys
tiq+(Joystiq)

"Anyways, back to NATAL. I call it the "Poor Man's Peripheral."

Natal's technology is vastly more advanced than the Wii's wiimote.
For one thing, Natal does face recognition, voice recognition, with very advanced AI (none of which the Wiimote does), in addition to motion recognition at a highly advanced level.
No "poor man's peripheral" about it.

@Kevin Jones:

"Natal's technology is vastly more advanced than the Wii's wiimote.
For one thing, Natal does face recognition, voice recognition, with very advanced AI (none of which the Wiimote does), in addition to motion recognition at a highly advanced level.
No "poor man's peripheral" about it."

I'm really hoping MS is paying you good money for defending them like you do. If they aren't, let me be the first the one to tell you that MS doesn't care about you. They just like making lots of money. Seriously. They do.

Also, you're quick to ask people to give you proof with their statements. How do you know the term "hardcore" is here to stay? Do you have any proof or some sort of crystal ball that lets you take a peek into the future of videogame terms? How do you know people wouldn't buy Madworld on the PS3/360?


One last thing, a tip if you will: You lose ALL credibility when you misspell the word "gamer" on a gaming site. I don't know what a "gammar" is, but according to you they love playing halo and call of duty. Never heard of these "gammers" before.


On a side note, I also doubt 70-80% of game publishers in the WORLD are working on Natal stuff. Perhaps he meant to say that the majority of publishers (who already publish 360 games) are working on it. There are thousands of game publishers out there.

Have a nice day.

@ Felipe Rodo


"I'm really hoping MS is paying you good money for defending them like you do"

/sarc MS pays me plenty of money alright..about one third what Nintendo pays you to spew this rubbish here time after time. /sarc off.


"They just like making lots of money."

Have you ever heard of shareholders in a company?
And have you ever heard of dividends paid on outsanding shares owned, which come from the profits that the company makes? And have you heard of capital gains?


"Also, you're quick to ask people to give you proof with their statements"

When some idiot comes here and disputes what Robbie Bach (chief of Microsoft E & D which includes the XBOX business) says about the number of 3rd parties that are making games for Natal, then that guy that is desputing Robbie Bach's figures, had better have his own credible figures to back what he says up, or he is merely blowing hot air.
Get it?


"How do you know the term "hardcore" is here to stay? "

Huh?
The term "hard core" is used not only by Nintendo themselves, it's used by EA, Sega etc in describing how their hard core games were not doing so great on the Wii, only recently. I don't care if the term is going to be used 20 years from now or not. We are talking about today.


"How do you know people wouldn't buy Madworld on the PS3/360?"

Because games similar to Madworld have not sold great on the PS3/360. There have been some franchises that have sold gangbusters on the PS3/360, like Call of Duty, Halo, Left4Dead, Gears of War, Aassasin's Creed etc. Madworold is simply not in the same class. There are simply too many great AAA titles on the 360/PS3 for Madworld to stand out.


" You lose ALL credibility when you misspell the word "gamer" on a gaming site. "

No I don't.
It's called a typo. Credibility on a gaming site has nothing whatsoever to do with typo's. It's got everythuing to do what the CONTENT/figures of what one posts though, which in your case is ZERO.
When I want to do an English class, I'll let ya know.

"On a side note, I also doubt 70-80% of game publishers in the WORLD are working on Natal stuff"

Again, why don't YOU provide any proof to back your "plucked from thin air" assertions.
One thng is certain, Robbie Backh knows exactly how many publishers are making games for Natal. You simply DON'T!


"Perhaps he meant to say that the majority of publishers (who already publish 360 games) are working on it. "

Robbie Bach said excatly what he meant. Words have meanings. And Bach knows what he is talking about a heck of a lot more than you (an anonymous poster on the internet), do.


"There are thousands of game publishers out there"

Yeah?
How many of them make actually make games that count?
Or even make revenues of just $100 million a year?
Or have any influence on console/PC gaming?

"Have a nice day. "

I wish I could say the same about you.
Sadly, I can't. Rabid, foaming at the mouth Nintendo shills like you, usually make me want to throw up.

@ Kevin

There are hundreds of 3rd party publishers, that don't develop games for the 360. They are small independent publishers, that mainly do titles for the PC and sell them online, there are hundreds of publishers in Japan doing Eroge games, there are dozens of publishers in Korea alone, that make MMORPGs for the PC, there are dozens of small and bigger sized publishing companies, that concentrate mainly on the Handheld consoles (e.g. Level 5). None of this publishers has ever done a 360 title.
You say
"Robbie Bach said excatly what he meant. Words have meanings. And Bach knows what he is talking about a heck of a lot more than you (an anonymous poster on the internet), do."

and after that you answer Felipe Rodo, when he says "There are thousands of game publishers out there"

"Yeah?
How many of them make actually make games that count?
Or even make revenues of just $100 million a year?
Or have any influence on console/PC gaming?"

Apart from the fact, that all of the above stated publishers have influence on console/PC gaming, can you at least stay consistent within one post?

@ Christian Keichel

"There are hundreds of 3rd party publishers, that don't develop games for the 360"

And there are even more who develop for the 360. Most 360 games don't even appear in the charts at all.
Then we have XBOX Live Arcade games, a lot of which are made by pretty small publishers.
n the other hand, if you start a one man "publishing house" today, and you don't make games for the 360, exactly how relevant is it? You can call yourself a game publisher, but then you haven't actually made anything.

"there are dozens of small and bigger sized publishing companies, that concentrate mainly on the Handheld consoles (e.g. Level 5). "

Capcom and Square Enix, which are both Japanese, have made more AAA 360 games than Wii games. The 360 has done pretty well amongst 3rd parties in Japan.


"Apart from the fact, that all of the above stated publishers have influence on console/PC gaming, can you at least stay consistent within one post? "

Where is the inconsistency here?
Roobbie Bach said exactly what he meant, and he knows exactly how many 3rd parties are making games for Natal. You and other posters that have trashed his numbers here, simply DON'T.
That has never stopped your lot from plucking figures from thin air, and throwing them about though has it?
Typical.

BTW, how is your "MW2 sales will collpase after one week/month" meme going?
The game has been # 1 in the UK for NINE straight weeks, and outsold NSMB(Wii) every single week since it was released.
Currently, MW2 has oustold every single Wii game ever released in the UK, including Wii Fit, Wii Play, Mario Kart and everything else. Plus MW2 has also outsold NSMB(DS) in the UK too.

Yawn Kevin Jones. Can't you at least in one thread, behave not like the average fanboy? Nobody talked about NSMB Wii and MW2 in this thread. It doesn't belong into this comment thread, but as you brought it up, how about the "PS3 will beat the Wii in Japan with plenty or room to spare". Right now, I don't have numbers how many MW2 Activision sold, if you have them, I would be happy, if you can share them with us.

For the record, you said
"Level 5 makes more games for the 360 than they do even for the Wii, even though they are Japanese"
Can you tell me which games Level 5 published for the 360, I can't find any and nobody ever said Level 5 is publishing games for the Wii, so I don't understand, why you say this. It is true, Level 5 doesn't develop games for the Wii, neither for the 360.

You still say, that 80% of all publishers worldwide (and for your advantage, I take Sony and Nintendo out of equation, but they are publishers nonetheless) develop for the 360 and all of them develop games for Natal? Doesn't numbers like this sound a little strange, even to you?

@Kevin Jones:
"Sadly, I can't. Rabid, foaming at the mouth Nintendo shills like you, usually make me want to throw up."

SO funny you would assume I was a nintendo fanboy! What gave it away!? the fact that I mentioned Madwordl!? OMG you're SO on to me!

You're a joke, dude. From your posts it seems you're the only one foaming at the mouth here.
Go back to your cave, troll!

You can respond all you want, but this is the last time I'll respond. I have better things to do than argue with you.

@ Microsoft Troll (Kevin)

The impetus of proof is on the original claim of 70-80% of developers supporting natal, and the author of this piece for checking or not checking the facts as claimed. We can already surmise that such a broad claim is false. My points are simply to clarify and offer a FAR more realistic interpretation of the quote than the hype generating (ahem, lying) exec at Microsoft originally gave.

Your choice to lap at the heals of the evil empire will not serve you, young jedi. Arguments contain logic yours must.

Fanboys, I guess it was only a matter of time.