Gamasutra: The Art & Business of Making Gamesspacer
View All     RSS
October 20, 2014
arrowPress Releases
October 20, 2014
PR Newswire
View All





If you enjoy reading this site, you might also want to check out these UBM Tech sites:


Microsoft Defends Ban Of  Call Of Duty: Black Ops  Players Using Swastika As Logo
Microsoft Defends Ban Of Call Of Duty: Black Ops Players Using Swastika As Logo
November 22, 2010 | By Simon Parkin

November 22, 2010 | By Simon Parkin
Comments
    47 comments
More: Console/PC



Stephen Toulouse, Director of Xbox Live Policy and Enforcement at Microsoft, has announced that any player who uses a swastika as a Call of Duty: Black Ops logo will be banned from the service.

Writing on his blog, Toulouse said: "If you think the swastika symbol should be re-evaluated by societies all over the Earth, I think that's great. Your Xbox Live profile or in-game logo, which doesn't have the context to explain your goal, is not the right place to do that. It's not political correctness, it's fundamental respect."

Toulouse pointed out that the ruling is not limited to the Nazi emblem, saying: "And by the way, that doesn't just go for the swastika, it applies to many other symbols as well that my team does indeed take action on when we see it."

However, he does not believe that every symbol with detractors should be targeted.

"My Twitter stream was filled with people stating that Xbox Live should equally ban the Star of David, the Christian Cross, and yes I am not kidding, the infinity symbol," he wrote, "because under various niche interpretations of those symbols they are as evil as the swastika symbol, and I should apply ethical relativism to all symbols on Xbox Live to respect all viewpoints because of the United States First Amendment."

"Even better? The argument that because the single-player [part] of the game is rated mature, the online experience should allow for all manner of horrible genocidal viewpoints," he added.

"I know the symbols might show up in games, but that's content that you know that you are getting, because it is rated content. It's there as part of the experience, not making a statement. Using it as your emblem is different."

"Yes we can have the discussion in other venues about the double meaning of various terms, something my team does everyday," he concluded. "But for many topics, it's kind of a no-brainer."


Related Jobs

Vicarious Visions / Activision
Vicarious Visions / Activision — Albany, New York, United States
[10.20.14]

Human Resources Manager
Giant Sparrow
Giant Sparrow — Playa Vista, California, United States
[10.17.14]

Lead Artist
Digital Extremes
Digital Extremes — LONDON, Ontario, Canada
[10.17.14]

UI ARTIST/DESIGNER
Digital Extremes
Digital Extremes — London, Ontario, Canada
[10.17.14]

Generalist Programmers










Comments


Jose Resines
profile image
You have to savor the irony: xbox live being fascist by banning the swastika symbol, which for many people (eastern religions mainly) is not related to the nazis at all.



Reminds me of their bans on anything that could be interpreted as being related to homosexuality. Yet more reason to never sign up to anything Microsoft.

Tomiko Gun
profile image
Those eastern religions don't use the exact swastika logos that the Nazis used.

Scott Southurst
profile image
@Tomiko Gun - Aux contrare



http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika.htm



The first buddhist temple I ever saw (in Singapore) was covered in them. If you look at that page you can see that the swastika used by Buddhists can be either "right handed" or "left handed".



Of course no doubt very few COD:BLOPS players will be using the swastika to express their Buddhist beliefs. M$ would be far better to be looking at the actual names of the players rather than a symbol which may or may not represent a fascist regime.

Jonathan Gilmore
profile image
Yes, because this is totally apples to apples with censorship relating to anti-gay slurs. Anybody arguing for the right to use a swastika in COD:BO is either a racist and/or an obnoxious jerk. THose buddhists out there who intended to use a swastika when they play COD will just have to use a different buddhist symbol. I'm sure those people will be able to go on with their lives.



Also, there is already plenty of racism on XBOX Live, hopefully this will help COD: BO be less nauseating to play online.

Scott Southurst
profile image
@Jonathan Gilmore - Agreed.

Eric Geer
profile image
Well I guess everything will offend someone---



In Monster Hunter Tri--there is a whole slew of words that were blocked out that have no reasons to be blocked..

Ex: After.



Think how many times you type after in a day--or if you are working on Mission based quest and say "What do you want to do ***** this?"



Apparently--other nations note "after" as a similar meaning to ass. Not sure which ones. But there are countless examples of meaningless censorship.



But, I thought for online games--that the content was not rated by the ESRB or other rating board?

Dolgion Chuluunbaatar
profile image
"After" means "ass" in German, but it's actually a very "sophisticated" and old way of saying "ass". It really shouldn't offend anyone, even if they're German speakers

Scott Southurst
profile image
Whats wrong with saying "donkey". Now if "After" meant "arse" then I'd understand the word being blocked.

Mark Taylor
profile image
I don't think any game player likes to be lectured on what they can do or think. Since when were Microsoft government? From the beginning, or since the anti-trust suits were 'resolved' ?

Victor Reynolds
profile image
they are "government" on their own service. People have an option to not play games on XBL or the xbox at all.

Scott Southurst
profile image
But players like to see offensive symbols/words/language. Interesting. Lets pander to the minority that feel that they have the right to offend other people, but not worry about the fact that someone might actually be offended by something that is _actually_ offensive. Imagine if you were Jewish and played COD:BLOPS. And imagine if a relative was a holocaust survivor or victim. Sure, you'd just laugh off the Nazi link "Haha - that's the symbol of the regime that killed my grandfather".



How amusing.

Joseph Gonzalez
profile image
So on a console that allows games where you can murder hookers, slang dope, massacre masses of civilians, torture humans, and countless other acts of “depravity”... using a swastika as a logo is somehow crossing the line? Maybe, just maybe MS should focus on development issues and leave the moral babysitting to the individual consumer? Just a thought.

Doug Poston
profile image
It's an interesting point on where the line is, but the swastika is associated in many people's minds with actual real world hate groups. Legal issues aside*, the risk of being associated with real world hate groups would be very bad PR for Microsoft.



If Microsoft was banning swastika's on your local machine, I would agree with your babysitting comment. But this is about what Microsoft chooses to broadcast over its networks.





* Microsoft does business in several countries where displaying the swastika is illegal.

Aaron Casillas
profile image
Fantastic point Joseph

Matt Diamond
profile image
I'm with Microsoft on this one. They're perfectly justified in trying to maximize the community's enjoyment by banning an almost universally abhorred symbol.

Ellis Kim
profile image
I'd reconsider that statement if I were you



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Ben Lewis-Evans
profile image
Yeah, some societies think the symbol is fine, and in fact think it is lovely. However most of the West views it as a symbol that represents horrible actions. So what Matt should have said is "an widely abhorred symbol" rather than "almost universally abhorred".



Arguing over semantics aside. Adam below is right, read the TOS. XBL is a private space, therefore Microsoft can be the deciders about what is right. Your right to free speech does not fully apply here.



Here they have decided to respect the views of those who would be offended. At... well basically very little comparative cost to those who think it isn't offensive. All they can do is not have a symbol they like, however if it was allowed it might cause significant emotional distress in other individuals.

Todd Boyd
profile image
I'll be soooo happy when the day comes that Americans aren't popping up on discussion boards and comment streams everywhere and touting their blatant lack of knowledge about the world outside of their nation under the ironic premise that they possess such knowledge or have put forth any effort to research it.



Yes, I am American, and yes, I agree that the swastika probably should have been banned for legal reasons regarding the countries in which Microsoft does business and operates its XBL service. That being said, calling it "an almost universally abhorred symbol" is just ignorant.

Mark Harris
profile image
So why not just correct his ignorance and leave off the "stupid American" ad hominem?

Mark Venturelli
profile image
Probably the EULA allows MS to do whatever the hell they want, but I do think that this is a little heavy-handed.

Adam Bishop
profile image
* sigh *



Are we really at a point in time where people STILL don't understand how TOS work? This has absolutely zero to do with free speech and everything to do with showing a base line of respect for other people on a private service. I find it amazing how many people will argue AGAINST acting respectfully.

Bruno Dion
profile image
Because in the "gaming" world, you have no right to be offended by anything or else you are a whiner.



They are just trying to act smart by saying that THEY know that the swastika didn't always mean Nazi but damnit guys stopping acting like emotionless smartasses and consider all the horror that is brought with the symbol.

Adam Bishop
profile image
I have no idea what makes you think that the "gaming world" has a seperate set of rules as opposed to the rest of the world. Just because someone is a "gamer" doesn't somehow make it OK for them to be a racist douche.



Edit: In retrospect it's possible that Bruno was being sarcastic, so insert appropriate comment about sarcasm being hard to detect over the Internet here.

Diego Leao
profile image
Adam I'm 100% with you, even more amazing is seeing _here_ at Gamasutra people arguing against it. It hurts my eyes...

Scott Southurst
profile image
@Adam - Careful - you're showing intelligence and clear thinking. Ppl associated with gaming don't like that.

Bruno Dion
profile image
Yeah, I was actually agreeing with you. The problem I point out is that the people defending the use of the swastika (here's 14 pages of this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.246367-Black-Ops-Sw
astika-Emblems-Will-Earn-Xbox-Live-Ban) think it is OK to be a racist douchebag in a game because of the old "it's just a game" excuse. I can't believe they even bring up FREEDOM OF SPEECH in this. Using a swastika as an emblem is not speech, unless your speech is "I'm a Nazi", in which case you deserve a ban anyway.

Aaron Karp
profile image
I see this as excellent news. While it's true that the swastika has meanings and origins that predate the Nazis by a very very long time, the likelihood that those using it as an in-game logo are speaking to those meanings and origins seems vanishingly small. Listen to the chatter in any online session and you are all but guaranteed to hear a stream of hateful, racist, homophobic, and just plain awful invective. That kind of thing makes the online gamespace very unpleasant to be in, and makes me never want to play online unless it's with friends, avoiding the game channel in favor of private chat. So right away, I'm not getting the full enjoyment of a game, and the tactical possibilities of voice chat are shut out by people who seem to strive to be as offensive as possible. Adding a visual element that can't be muted takes away what little control I have over my exposure to that kind of stuff, and I'm glad to hear that Microsoft is working to eliminate that possibility. I'm always disappointed to see people use free speech as an excuse for being completely inconsiderate and insensitive. Just because you have a right to say something doesn't mean it's the right thing to say, and as Adam Bishop pointed out above, XBox Live is not a public forum.

Gregory Kinneman
profile image
"The Xbox LIVE profile and in game content you create is accessible by everyone. You do not have the context inside of it to explain your long winded contrarian view that your pithy text that violates the Terms of Use or Code of Conduct is actually intended to change people’s minds about a commonly held understanding."



For all of you arguing against Toulouse in these comment, please read the full blog article. He's very clear about why it's inappropriate to use this symbol, while still being fully understanding of the reasons involved.

Matt Cratty
profile image
Make them change the symbol, but a ban is ridiculous.



I'm becoming less and less amazed at the incompetence that is Microsoft's gaming division.

Doug Poston
profile image
It might sound too harsh, but having moderated online communities in the past, it makes a great deal of sense.



The type of user that adds a swastika to their character is an asshole. If you take away their swastika, they'll start playing the "how much can I get away with?" game. How about the "SS" symbol? KKK? !Z? etc.



To me the real question is not that Microsoft bans accounts, but how do they 'un-ban' them?

Eric Carr
profile image
Did the symbol ship with the game? Or does COD:BO have an emblem creator? I mean, if it shipped with the game, MS should have mentioned it then, not blame people for using the content on the disc.

Joseph North
profile image
First the Gal Gun game developer crisis over in japan, now the Swastika Ban in COD Black Ops. Next will be blood and swearing filters in Xbox live or has that happen yet? I just buy and download the games from them I really don't mess with their Xbox live service.



That being said all I can say is don't bite the hand that feeds you too much Microsoft or you'll might meet with less than desirable results.

Adam Bishop
profile image
Are you suggesting that white supremacists (or people who find them amusing) are so prolific on Xbox Live that a company as massive as Microsoft is going to notice it in their bottom line if those people stop purchasing their products?

Joseph North
profile image
Nope I'm simply suggesting that recent actions in enforcing their policy on games in general are a little odd. But I don't run any part of their company so they are free to do what they want.



Oh I did like how you just skip over the other stuff I mention which I thought was at the least relevant to their actions of becoming more family friendly.



Also whats up with the White supremacists comment, I'm simply stating that people don't like to be told what to do be it playing games "Banning symbols, blood and swearing. Or making them i.e. the Gal Gun where Microsoft told the developers no sexual Innuendo, pretty much put them in a frenzy to some how answer the problem when they were literally a couple of months from launching it.

Joseph North
profile image
"Correction to above"



Or making them i.e. the Gal Gun game where Microsoft told the developers no sexual Innuendo. Which pretty much put them into a frenzy on how to answer the problem when they were literally a couple of months away from launching it.



...man sorry about the horrible word placement above. I'll try not to do that again.

Adam Bishop
profile image
Banning one thing is not necessarily equivalent to banning another thing. The Nazi swastika, which is what we're talking about here, is a symbol used by white supremacists and people who think it's "shocking" and humorous to make themselves look like white supremacists. Telling racists to cut it out isn't about being "family friendly", it's about not letting the jerks ruin the experience for everyone else.



As for blood and profanity filters? Games have had those for years, and I don't see anything wrong with them.

Joseph North
profile image
Adam I'm already aware of what the Nazi swastika is. I'm simply saying people are paying them to have fun and when their perspective fun is being subjected to being ban then they will either stop doing the act or just leave and take their money elsewhere.



Don't like people wearing the swastika symbol? Have Microsoft or Treyarch plant a bot that specifically kills them during their session or kill them right from the start. Yeah it's a dick move but it gets the job done and puts them on notice real quick. This way they can't play without addressing the issue at hand.

dana mcdonald
profile image
I think many game companies would profit greatly by erring more on the strict side. Jerks ruin multiplayer experiences, and drive more players away than game balance or boredom does. Anybody choosing a swastica for their symbol or whatever is obviously not somebody who is going to give you a good healthy game community.

Adam Bishop
profile image
Yes Joseph, people are paying to have fun. But they are paying to have fun within rules that they explicitly and knowingly agreed to when they signed up for Xbox Live. "Don't use racist imagery" isn't a new rule, it was present from the time people started using Xbox Live, and it's present in virtually everyone online game, including games on Wii, PS3, and PC.



These rules aren't there to make people enjoy the game less, they're there to make people enjoy the game *more* (as Dana correctly points out). The number of people who want to play games free from racism (/homophobia/sexism) greatly outnumbers the number of people who feel offended when they're told to act with a little bit of respect for others.

Joseph North
profile image
Fair enough, at this point the conversation we are having is nothing more than old ground that's been tread on. Considering that we are focusing on the players and not the game companies who make the games or provide the service the point becomes moot.



My question then is if I bring a DS with a pokemon game in a pet store and then decide out of the blue to play it. Should I be ban because I'm playing a game that essentially promotes the idea of cock fighting? Or better yet a symbol from pokemon you know like a pokeball or pikachu. "Note that I like pokemon but deplore the idea of animal cruelty, like most people."



Because the more video games become mainstream the more we going to have to reevaluate the idea on how they should be treated within the scope of public and private space. But I'm sure both of you are already aware of that.

Nathan M
profile image
I saw this dude online this weekend. I was going to report him but he left the room too soon. CAMPER!

B. Kiesel
profile image
Yes the swastika was once a positive symbol in western Europe, and still is in several cultures which were isolated from Nazi Germany's behavior.

However, there is a point when something can be considered "ruined forever" in the public consciousness of the people effected by it.



The swastika, has been indelibly linked to evil in the minds of the witnesses and victims of the National Socialist German Worker's party. Which prosecuted the most destructive war in human history, and murdered tens of millions of civilians (In occupied nations as well as the holocaust.), in pursuit of a detestable goal, based on a flawed and ignorant view of the world.



Anyone who uses the swastika in an internationally public setting, whether in ignorance or protest, should take a long hard look at what they are associating themselves with in the context of the post Nazi world.



The actions of the Nazi party have put a stain on the swastika which will never be entirely cleaned until their deeds pass from the pages of history.

Advocating the removal of the Nazi stigma from the swastika, is inherently advocating the forgetting of the atrocities which were carried out under its banner.



It sounds harsh, but if you don't want to be associated with or advocate the actions of the Nazi's, you shouldn't publicly use swastikas in an international setting. And if you do want to be associated with or advocate the Nazi's, I hope you crawl into a hole and die.

robert bang
profile image
Hmmm, when Adam says that someone feels offended when they are told to act respectfully, and I'm thinking of a scenario (Finn as I am) that what if a person would use the flag of Finnish Air Force, the flag. Just because he/she wants to respect the war veterans what they did for our country. And the flag can be seen here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Air_Force . And I know that some of you might think that Finland was an axis country. This is true, but do you really think we wanted to? We fought for Nazi ideology? No way, we fought for our freedom and independence. We werent nazis at all or using swastika just because it symbolised nazi ideology. The real fact is that Finnish Air Force had swastika before Hitler even made the flag for nazis. It was back in 1918, and Hitler made his flag and symbol in 1919. We took alot of the symbols away just because we respect other people. But it has been symbol before nazis, we use it as a symbol of luck, nothing else. I dont mean I would do it, but if someone would. Would they be nazis or a supporter of nazi ideology? I know that you dont like swastika, I do, but it has NOTHING to do with nazis. Its a symbol of luck. Not a symbol of terror, murder and pain.



And you think that if I use my own country air force's flag, Im a nazi, or support the view. Heck, even our president's flag has a swastika. And NO WERE NOT NAZIS. We just realise the "true" meaning of swastika symbol. So yea, you mark us as nazis because we use a flag that is used in our own country. Way to go. Sometimes, go think outside the box.

Mark Harris
profile image
Well here's the deal, do you need to use that swastika knowing that the symbolism is offensive to millions of people and recalls in the public memory of a good portion of the world some of the most heinous acts of villiany in the history of the planet?



Could you possibly honor your air corps in another way, or is it absolutely necessary to use the swastika?



I think we all get what you're saying, that not all people who use a swastika are Nazis, but for many people there is an indelible link between the two. Do you find it more apropos to stick with a possibly offensive symbol or to use something else?

Aaron Truehitt
profile image
I positive that players who use swastikas aren't using it to promote some other peaceful thing. Has than been an outcry from a ton of people that say they want to use the symbol because it means something else? No..most are using it because they are indeed jerks or trying to be cool kids on the internet.

Cody Scott
profile image
I only played the first week of game release due to being swamped with school work and only saw one swastika....did it really get that bad that it became noticeable, Im just curious since my 360 has been unplugged for several weeks now.

Paopao Saul
profile image
Bottom line: RTFTOS or GTFO.


none
 
Comment: