Wow, Blizzard keeps showing that they have their priorities totally confused.

Priorities confused? I think that this is long overdue. Think of how much more polished and balanced a mod like DoTA would be if the creators brought in enough money to quit their jobs and work on it (and other mods) full-time instead of ramming it in on evenings and weekends.

Sellable mods offers indie designers who aren't artists and have limited programming skill another possible road to success. Heck, this might be enough to make up for the absence of LAN play (at least as far as my purchasing decisions are concerned)

AHHHHH yes Josh, because I should pay for all the maps that become even slightly popular.


the DOTA people make enough off of the mod to eat, and pay for some bills, and that should be enough.

I don't support this, I don't want to pay for all the TDs.

Wolf, Blizzard is not saying that all maps would cost money. They are saying developers have the option of charging for mods (which may include maps) if they choose. Developers can still distribute maps or mods for free if they choose as well.

Certainly, many maps and mods will still be free for the simple reason that consumers have little reason to trust an unknown developer or team. Those developers and teams may have to make a name for themselves and get some experience with free releases before they make better mods and maps. But I don't think it's unreasonable that if a team spends hundreds of hours making a high-end, pro-quality mod, that they shouldn't get a few bucks back.

I think it's a flipping awesome idea. Why are you guys assuming you'll suddenly have to pay for stuff that is free right now? No one will buy that shit, no mod maker in his right mind will charge for that shit.

Say what you will about DotA now, but in order to stay viable, they had to take all their work and port it to a completely stand-alone game. Imagine if they could have kept focusing only on DotA, and charged for a version of DotA that was far and away better than the DotA of today?

Look at Garry's Mod for another example - it started free, and there is still a free version out there that you can play. But after putting so much time and effort into it, Garry started charging $10 for it, made it COMPLETELY different from the free version, and one of the best mods ever created.

Garry has now sold more than 100,000 copies of Garry's Mod, getting his due, much deserved reward for all his hard work. But hey, if you don't want to pay that $10, you definitely don't have to if you want to play Garry's Mod.

@Carl
What is to stop everyone charging for maps and such that would for all intents and purposes just be badly designed money sinks? Every 16yo who discovers they can charge for their l33t maps they just learnt how to make would saturate the market place leading to alot of annoyed people ending up purchasing maps to play on, then realising its a steaming pile crap.

Sure they'd have a review system in place, but some chump has to fork out first. Why should someone have to take a hit in their wallet to save everyone else on what should have initially been free?

I feel they definitely need to follow the Steam route for this, and have strict controls on what mods/maps go from free to "premium" content. Gary's Mod started free but then was offered to go to a paid model by Valve. I know if a mod goes from free to premium it must generally be doing something right (see Counterstrike as another thing that went from free to paid).

IMO this is fantastic. This will give small and indy developers a new venue to showcase their work. Like flash and the iPhone, this has the potential to be a great opportunity for developers.

@Ross. The same thing that stops iPhone users from buying a terrible apps. Reviews and ranking sites. Sure, some people might make impulse purchases, but after the first terrible map they won't be inclined to do it again. I just hope there is some mechanism for demo or lite version of maps with the option to buy.

I agree with Ross here. With absolutely no control you will get stuck with a crappy Appstore like result where the market is flooded with crap, even a review system for the app and app review sites still do not prevent people from buying crap. The only difference being that I doubt Blizzard is going to have numerous staff members reviewing submitted content to ensure that it works and follows the rules. Just look at the guy that got finally banned for having 999 Apps that were all based on stolen copyright images, his apps had no content but some stolen pictures of hot girls and he made a cool $1000/day.

My guess is that the only successful for-sale maps will also have a free version. Using DoTA as an example again, they could release a free version with a quarter the heroes and lots of items removed. Everybody who liked it could spend a few bucks and get the full version. I'm not sure if they'll have a built-in demo mechanism, but anyone map maker can go in, pull some stuff from his map, and release the trimmed down version free to act as a demo.

To me, that resolves any concerns of crappy paid-for maps. People who make maps that are truly good will probably go through the extra tiny effort of making a demo version, not to mention that these people are likely to have already made a name for themselves with high-quality free maps.

I just look at it from other perspective. First of all anytype of modding is amateur activity, when suddenly you charge for you amateur activity one becomes a professional, be you an artist, level designer, programmer. By turning pro comes certain responsibility such as paying taxes, using license products for your production etc. As far as my experience tells me general modding community doesn't give a damn about any of these things and rightfully so. When you put a system in place which moneterize this activity the company needs to put a system in place which addresses it. Generally in game business responsible party is a publisher who makes sure that developer has all his tools license. So when somebody said Gary's Mod made money, I am pretty sure Valve before allowing the dude to sell his mode through steam made sure that he can account how he produced it in the mode. They probably advance him some money to take care of it. So in my book it is not mod but stand alone video game. It is used to be a mode, but now it is not. I am pretty sure that SC2 editor is quiet advance and allows importing of objects, texture, models from other software packages or allows for development of plug-ins which take care of it. Of course legally modder will be responsible for his map and assets in it and blizzard will act only as a shop which distributes it and no software developer will sue any modder for using pirated tools, so in Activision book everything is kosher. The big "but" is that we will hear so much "blah, blah" from Activison on people pirating SC2, where at the same time they financially envourage piracy of other software, knowing that tool developers will say nothing because activision studios are big customer. Overall bad idea.

On the other hand, there's been very successful and totally free maps and mods, which spread like wildfire because free they were.

Besides, a mod evolves. A map, it does not, or barely. Garry's mod, that's like Counter Strike. Free for a long time, and that was fine because the quality of the product meant these guys had something to present when they'd be looking for a job in the industry.

Of course, now, there's less and less jobs, poverty is rising and people's money vanishes.
Blizzard is only looking for more money to give to the shareholders.

People comparing this to the app store are really underestimating the awareness and cheapness of starcraft players. Nobody is going to buy a map that hasn't already been proven through a free version, that would be considered lunacy. People will pay for an improvement on an already well-loved game like DoTA, but, unless the editor allows for importing images, there will be no way to just release a map with pics of hot girls to entice stupid users.

This is an awesome idea, so awesome in fact I'm excited to start working with the tools myself. The mod scene has been really dying in the past few years, and the ability to charge for epic quality mods is an amazing idea. It could totally revitalize modding. Just thinking about it is really distracting me...

@Ross & @Foz: Are Starcraft II players the type of people to pay for an unknown map or mod from an unknown developer? I doubt it. They are much more likely to pay proven developers who have consistently demonstrated that they know what they're doing. Here's a simple way to make a careful purchase: don't ever buy a map or mod from anyone unless they've already released a high-quality free map or mod.

Let the buyer beware... but also let the buyer exercise some brain cells.

Have you guys bitching about "everything being for pay" actually read the article you're responding to? I have to ask, because:

"At launch, the marketplace will immediately allow free distribution of mods, but commerce functionality will be added in later"

For god knows how many months - a hell of a lot, knowing Blizzard, the ecosystem will be flooded with tons of free maps. It's the only possible way to distribute them for that time. Great maps, average maps, terrible maps - everything will be free.

By the time Blizzard actually gets the marketplace functionality integrated, there will be a shitload of content to compete with if someone wants to charge for their stuff. You'll have to have something pretty amazing to get people to actually pay for it.

"With absolutely no control you will get stuck with a crappy Appstore like result where the market is flooded with crap, even a review system for the app and app review sites still do not prevent people from buying crap."

Um, you do realize that there are plenty of terrible custom maps already? You do realize that amount of maps available won't magically make other maps worse? The only difference now is that you CAN choose to sell a map instead.

@Carl- I fully understand the reasoning, I'm not one to go buy a random unproven mod...but you do need to take into account the stupidity factor of some people. Also the fact that as soon as it goes paid, SOMEONE is bound to exploit it in some way.

Then again, I guess thats the only way some people are going to learn...

If you want to attract people to what you have, charge money for it. If you want them to think it's garbage, make it free. Selling something increases its perceived value.

When you want a new tool do you go to the dollar store or do you go to a hardware store?

To me, this is great news because I have avoided modding for years specifically because I would be giving it away for free, and I don't like the idea of giving a game developer charity by making content for his game without being paid.

I just had to post to hilight how disgustingly moronic this comment is

"the DOTA people make enough off of the mod to eat, and pay for some bills, and that should be enough."

Yes, naturally, we wouldn't want talented developers making money off their product now would we, especially when they're being permitted, nay encouraged to do so by the company who developed the engine they're using? This form of micro-licensing is a smart move and a welcome departure from their current philosophy of 'make money off anything that's even touched our intellectual property and expect to be drowned in Cease and Desists'.

But no, that would be ridiculous wouldn't it, much better to pursue a totally unrealistic utopian ideal of development solely for the love of it, just as long as it doesn't involve you opening your wallet hmm?

Yes, John Bain, I wholeheartedly agree.

And what throws me even more is when mostly young male wanna-be game developers not only allow themselves to be pwned by game developers - who get all their labour for nothing, nada, zero - but they *enthusiastically* want to get reamed this way, with the remote remote hope that maybe, maybe, after the game dev community has already thoroughly enjoyed their mod (to the point it may have peaked already), that the developer might actually buy it; or that they might get a job out of it. Maybe. (Though I'll point out that apparently even Valve now has stopped acquiring mods, because their company is just getting too big.)

If I worked in carpentry, I'd be an utter fool to build a house, allow someone to move into it, and then - *if he likes the house* - ask him to pay me. But only if he feels like it.

These modders may be good game makers, some of them, but they are utterly naive and gullible when it comes to business sense.

If game developers want quality mods of their games to appear, they they should be ready to pay for it in some manner - even if it's in simple equity or a shared revenue stream.

(Of course the next challenge is going to be in marketing the mod...)

Somehow I feel most of the complaints here are said by developers and not gamers... If you're a good "real" game developer, why whould you fear the modding market?

Guys please stop lol it痴 very simple.
You login with your E-mail Right?! So I知 sure that when people create Maps or Mods, you will be able to play them for free for the first 5 times let's say, and then you will have the choice to buy it no? I知 sure they will come up with an intelligent system where they'll make sure you "PAY" for something you are satisfied with.

Also, on Bnet, I知 sure they will have a rating system on Maps from everyone who have played them for "free" for the first 5 time <--- (again just an example) where you'll know from millions of people if it's worth it or not. You will also see how many users have tried it. If it's popular or not Etc...

As I知 writing this I知 getting more and more ideas how to control this! And this is just me! One person.

Here's another idea! After soo many negative feedback on a certain Mod or Map, it will probably get deleted from the system on the Bnet so it's always the good ones that stay.
So from then on I知 sure some developers will or will not charge they're work but if they do, you could be sure it will be worth it.