From what I gather, at least one of the bundled games (Warp) requires Origin to play, even though it is sold through Steam. And all of the games require acceptance of EA's phenomenally awful EULA and ToS to play at all. "Indie" indeed.

^Ugh...

To be fair, the line *was* already blurred. Braid was published by Microsoft, after all.

Thank you.

Just now I've been playing the Microsoft-branded "Triple Pack" disk of Trials HD, Limbo, and Splosion Man. It doesn't call itself an indie bundle, but how else would you describe it?

I've also got two other Xbox Live disk compilations, but they're arguably advertising demos, showing what you get if you subscribe. The "Triple Pack" is sold as a straight game disk with no mention of Xbox Live.

"Indie is a label that can get a developer noticed"

Like face in the crowd? Indie really means unfunded small developer. Any other attempt to define it becomes an ideological fight.

Ever try getting on XBLA or PSN and actually making money without a publisher? It's not easy. Unless you develop for PC, it can be an expensive business to get into and contains a ton of uncertainty. I can guarantee you there is a guy who is making the next Fez or Braid right now but doesn't have the slightest clue of how to promote that game and will probably lose his shirt in the process.Making indie games is great. Making money by making indie games is even greater. When you have a family to feed and employees to pay, EA Partners looks like a pretty great deal. A lot of posters on here can spout a bunch of hyperbole about EA being the devil, but if all they are doing is publishing and helping market games from smaller, indie or boutique studios then more power to them. It doesn't mean people need to go out and buy Madden or Fifa. At the same time, everyone including Notch need to get off their high horse and realize that people need to make hard decisions in this life.

Yes, it is very hard - because you are competing with other games that use publishers. Publishers provide the cure to the disease they create. Look at the mainstream game industry, where developers are forced to crunch for months at a time (not on their darling titles like indie devs do, so it actually feels like work) and given no creative say on the result of the project. Then when the project is done, devs are fired -- sometimes even if the project turns a profit! Used and abused, exactly what the indie scene is trying to exodus from.

Publishers helping indies are trying to make sure the indie sector becomes the same way (dependent on publishers). If we had another economic system built on trust and cooperation (not necessarily socialism or communism, don't attack me :] ), then I would be more optimistic. But as long as we have cutthroat capitalism where corporations are financially _obligated_ to their stakeholders to increase their profits as much as possible, even at the expense of the small guy, I have no trust in any of their motives.

"Nice game you have here... sure would be bad if something happened to it. You know, for a small cut, we could help 'protect' it from failing in the market."

It's like how government welfare causes the poor to become dependent on the government to the point where, in the long run, the poor are worse off and are being kept down by their dependence on the government -- even though in the short term it seems to benefit them. What are these indie studios going to do when the next EA indie bundle doesn't include them but instead includes their competition? Will they be able to compete with other indies backed by EA? Wouldn't indies start fighting to get that EA advantage, offering higher and higher percentages and more and more control to EA, until the indie scene has become what it was constructed to escape? Paying EA for no extra value, simply forking over money so they won't side with the other guy?

With all this said, I don't blame any of the devs for signing up with EA if that's what they "had" to do (though I wouldn't let EA spray me with water if I was on fire), I just wish they would be honest and not call it an "indie" bundle since they caved in. That is not fair to their peers who are still trying to make it without feeding the publisher parasite. If EA is really going to do this ethically I guess I won't dislike them for it. But they don't deserve my trust anymore; they have had plenty of years to earn that back, so my first instinct is that this is just a cynical cash grab, simultaneously profiting off of the indie label that seeks to expel such evil from its ranks while limiting the ability for developers to ever escape the publishing paradigm.

I would in return ask why was Braid dependent upon Microsoft Game Studios? Why get greedy and not just release only on PC? Fez is also published by Microsoft Game Studios, it must not be indie enough.

Like many others, I think the word "indie" is just hipster slang. It's really just another way of saying "niche" or "exclusive". If anything it's another sign of the same old tired journalism and consumerism that needs to pigeonhole everything in this world.

Regardless of what "indie" means now, independent -- as in independent from publishers -- has a history in game development. It is not just a word, it is a thing to cherish, the way things ought to be -- which is why it is very hurtful that people confuse and mangle the word.

"Indie" does not mean pretentious hipster bullshit, it means avoiding the temptation to feed the publisher beast that tries to control the industry built from _your_ work, that tries to tell you how many hours a week you have to work while limiting the fruits of your labor to a flat salary with no job stability while they take the lion's share. It is simply the modern day equivalence of feudalism. It means being free from tyranny, which is what my country (The United States) was founded on. That tyranny has found its way into our business elites and government today is a tragedy too often overlooked.

This has nothing to do with being indie enough, you are either independent of third party funding and publishing or you are not. This has nothing to do with hipsters, or being artsy, or any of that bullshit. It has to do with the proper definition of the phrase independent developer, which is typically shortened to indie because most people are too lazy to say or spell independent developer.

If you want to argue with people who care more about their games/music/movies being indie go to Starbucks. All I care about is the proper use of words and phrases.

Independence is a concept with a clear meaning that is distinct from exclusivity. If people can no longer distinguish the two, that's on them. There is nothing confusing or ambiguous about this word whatsoever; there are only a lot of people who don't want to accept its definition when it doesn't include something they like.