For all it's issues D3 was an enjoyable experience. I played the hell out of it. Working on a beloved franchise with some rabid fans (who display a sense irrational entitlement sometimes), I would say that Jay Wilson walks away with a lot of great experience. Diablo 3 is the kind of career challenge we all dream of so how about we grow up a little and tone down the hyperbole.
Diablo 3 was a terrible game. It was hardly anything like Diablo 1 and 2. They took Diablo 3 and tried to make it part MMO which just ruined it's ARPG roots and what people have come to expect and love. Sometimes, change is not a good thing.
I agree with the sentiment of "what IP might I go destroy next". I'm sure Jay is not entirely responsible for the failings of Diablo 3, but from just reading his brazen thought processes on the game in interviews and forum responses, it is clear he played a large part in digging the game a grave.
I hate to say it, Carlo, but it wouldn't actually be hard to do better than the D3 that is currently shipped. Let's go over the things they got wrong:
1. Utter neglect of PvP, to the point of class imbalance, exploits, and conclusion that D3 will never have actual PvP. I think just about anyone could have seen how "telling the PvP guy to be quiet" might be bad for PvP.
2. Deciding to ship instead of addressing the issues brought up consistently and clearly by the beta testers, who cited lack of endgame content and the tragically stillborn loot pinatas that replaced the D2 experience.
... honestly, I have a lot, LOT more I find to be a game design sin in D3, especially since they had D2 to use as a blueprint, but I'm rather of the opinion that it doesn't take a genius to not make those two mistakes.
@carlo The famous "lets see you do better" fallacy. I haven't seen you in a while.
I really wanted to enjoy d3 and play it for a long time but as of now this isn't happening. Yeah, the game was good but blizard is known for making games people would play for many years to come, especially one that took this long to make. Not saying Jay is to blame but I agree with Simon and some of the wrong choices made. As much as I wanted to enjoy it, there is a reason why it didnt get GOTY at all the top sites even with its sales and scores.
D3 was a massive step down. Calling it an "enjoyable experience" is like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound.
Also, "Fuck that loser." I mean, we can talk about Kotick being pure evil and Activision being greedy, making Blizzard fuse Diablo 2 with WoW, but i doubt that Wilson was forced by his overlords to post that on Facebook. He's a fraud.
To sum up my experience, when I quit WoW I lost faith in it as a good game. When I played D3 I lost faith in Blizzard as a great developer. I bought D3 on that faith alone.
1. Utter neglect of PvP, to the point of class imbalance, exploits, and conclusion that D3 will never have actual PvP. I think just about anyone could have seen how "telling the PvP guy to be quiet" might be bad for PvP.
games are not just about how many features a game has, so not having psp is not the existential problem of diablo 3, the auction house system is.
the real issue is that it is easier to get the gear you want from the auction then from the game, and that the auction house is subject to insane inflation (Blizzards tax is too low. essentially) the amount of total gold among the players keep increasing and blizzard is not taking enough away to account for that.
the problem is simpler though, in diablo 2 everyone complained about lack of a central marketplace, this became the auction house, however the team just did not predict the immense effect it would have on the game. and to be hones very few people did, everyone was lauding blizzard for solving this dacade old problem so nicely... untill a few weeks after release
also non offline play is most likely not a design choice as much as a publishers wish, again adding offline play would not have made the gameplay more fun.
and about his quote, was it wise no, but havent all of us ever felt that way, especially while getting kicked while we are already down getting pummeld over something you worked 7 years of your life to build and what you love? also he was referring to Hellgate London being not much of a succes either while under the false impression he was in a non public environment...
Yes it was extremely unwise and untimely and maybe even dumb but posting he is a fraud isn't very nice either is it? overall there is a lot of good to say about diablo3 ,
the combat feels really good, the art is lovely, the characters fun and entertaining, I played it for more the 70 hours whereas most AAA games get 1,5 from me these days.
therefore I think it is more dissapointment due to impossible expectations then the game actually being bad.
Come on, give the guy a break. I'm not particularly fond of D3, but a director is more than his worst move. Also, AH in general is a pretty difficult issue. It's hard to predict massive people driven economies correctly, and game economies are no exceptions. I remember a lot of excitement about the AH before D3 launched, and I still think the reasons mentioned made sense. It didn't work out as it should, and that's a shame. But risks don't always turn out to work right.
About the launched product, always online and that kind of stuff: you can't really blame all of that simply on one guy. What about the publisher? The thing that irritates me the most about this, is that D3 has great art, fun combat and loads of good content. They obviously took too much to work on (and end game always suffers), took a risk that turned out to fail (AH) and listened to the requests of the publisher (always online). If these things would have been done by an indie studio, we would have lauded them for their ambition, and the great things that stand. But since we're talking about Blizzard, we put an impossible load on a group, requesting nothing but perfection. It's not that easy.
I can understand angry or disappointing hardcore D2 fans, since D3 lost ground for those people. But members of the game industry, they should know better than throwing insults or saying how easily D3 could have been 10x better.
I fully admit to being a full blown "Hardcore D2 fan" as it is probably my top played game of all time. So I actually fully believe that making D3 better would be 100x easier, simply make it like Diablo 2. After all, it is why there is a Diablo 3 in the first place and there is a reason a good deal of people, myself include, still play it.
@Freek Hoekstra
"games are not just about how many features a game has, so not having psp is not the existential problem of diablo 3, the auction house system is. "
The problem, with pvp specifically, is Diablo is known to have an extremely simple pvp system. You simply hostile a player and seek them out. There was no objective other than collecting that other player's ear and there didn't need to be one.
Neither D1 or D2 was balanced around pvp, you just had to get creative with the more under powered classes. So this showed to me, because this system is so simple (hostile button, flag other player as target-able) and so true to the diablo series, that the D3 dev wasn't interested in carrying the torch of D2. They wanted to make their own game, which is respectable but not to be meet without resistance, especially with a series as beloved as diablo.
"the problem is simpler though, in diablo 2 everyone complained about lack of a central marketplace"
This is called D2jsp, and it works extremely well.
Adriaan Jansen
"If these things would have been done by an indie studio, we would have lauded them for their ambition, and the great things that stand. But since we're talking about Blizzard, we put an impossible load on a group, requesting nothing but perfection. It's not that easy."
This may be true for an indie title, however it is because it is Blizzard and because they have already released 2 great arpg titles that we put such expectations on them. But the expectations were simple, make another Diablo game. However they delivered, what I feel, was a reboot of the series.
I don't want to hate on this man, but the game was not what it should have been coming from D2. a let down in so many ways, and clearly what was the most important feature for Blizzard(RMAH) takes away the entire purpose of playing this type of RPG, getting gear.
Well now i guess he'll be making his mark on Titan.
I wonder how many people stayed away from buying Diablo 3 because of the beta buzz. While I played Diablo II sporadically, I intended on picking up D3 and getting into it heavily - until I heard it was good, but only *just* missing Blizzard's magical touch.
Probably not a lot of people, I guess. It still broke all the sales records.
It'd be interesting to see how a Diablo 4 would do, x years down the line. It's not unreasonable to attribute a lot of D3's sales performance to D2's legacy. D3's apparently a great/successful game, but you can't help but wonder about what kind of legacy it's left behind.
I was interested in D3 at the beginning, having bought both previous games way back. Soon as I heard about the always online requirement I was put off, then I heard about the auction house and it was dead to me.
I tried the open beta just to make sure I wasn't cutting myself off from a truly great game, I wasn't.
I took it off my radar the day I found out you can't just put the disk in and play the game. Sorry to sound like a grumpy old man but online-only is an instant no-sell for me. My "broadband" is janky and laggy at best and sometimes I just like to be off the grid.
Why is this news worthy? Seems to me that 7 years on a project that was 10 years in the making only to be an utter disappointment and total departure from nearly all the compelling game mechanics that made D2 such a success is not exactly praise worthy. Thanking management for keeping you? Odd way to express such a thing. And why would Blizzard need to hire in a new director? Is no one there worthy of a promotion? Sad to see such a legacy whither and die so.
I chose to buy Torchlight instead as it was created by the guys who did Diablo in the first place. And it was instant 'Diablo' feel to it (they even got the same musician) I won't touch D3 with a ten foot pole until I am able to play offline.
Uh... this is news now? Guy leaves project team after the main project had been completed, moves onto the next one. Doesn't leave the company. No project cancellations involved. Just... business as usual.
"I know some of you feel we fell short of our promise to release the game "when it's ready." While we're not perfect, we try to make the best decisions we can with the information and knowledge we have at the time. That doesn't mean we always make the right decisions, but if we made a mistake then I feel we've made an exceptional effort to correct it.
This is what you can always count on from Blizzard: that we will stand by our games and make every effort to continually improve them over time."
-Jay's Forum Post
I'm surprised he doesn't just point to Vivendi's sale of Activision since anyone with a brain can connect the dots on this one. Activision needed to capitalize on 10 years of investment before going to auction and that superseded the tradition of excellence at Blizzard... except now Blizzard is just another game developer with too much overhead and too little design talent, and is not going to afford the premium Activision paid for it. How do analysts value reputation?
I think the reason that Jay Wilson receives so much flak is the cocky arrogance he displayed throughout the development process. He seemed to down every feature about diablo 2 as bad design. Now they are patching the game to be more and more to be like Diablo 2, from the simpler pvp to collect keys and organs.
http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/919/comments - is a good comic that sums up the cycle diablo 3 has taken. Everything was going to be awesome, way better than the poorly designed Diablo 2... then eventually we are just going to make it like diablo 2 anyway but kill any reason for you to care.
Don't forget the second tenet of customer service: Do NOT make ANY promise that you are not ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you can keep. Don't tease or even announce ANYTHING unless you are 100% certain it will be provided and exist. Even 99% certainty is not enough.
Is D3 a fun game? Yes. Is it mired down with issues that can easily be corrected? Yes. Will they be corrected? In 5+ years. I enjoyed the game. But there is sooo many minor issues to bring up that they weigh the overall game down like a 10 ton truck.
For all it's issues D3 was an enjoyable experience. I played the hell out of it. Working on a beloved franchise with some rabid fans (who display a sense irrational entitlement sometimes), I would say that Jay Wilson walks away with a lot of great experience. Diablo 3 is the kind of career challenge we all dream of so how about we grow up a little and tone down the hyperbole.
Diablo 3 was a terrible game. It was hardly anything like Diablo 1 and 2. They took Diablo 3 and tried to make it part MMO which just ruined it's ARPG roots and what people have come to expect and love. Sometimes, change is not a good thing.
I agree with the sentiment of "what IP might I go destroy next". I'm sure Jay is not entirely responsible for the failings of Diablo 3, but from just reading his brazen thought processes on the game in interviews and forum responses, it is clear he played a large part in digging the game a grave.
1. Utter neglect of PvP, to the point of class imbalance, exploits, and conclusion that D3 will never have actual PvP. I think just about anyone could have seen how "telling the PvP guy to be quiet" might be bad for PvP.
2. Deciding to ship instead of addressing the issues brought up consistently and clearly by the beta testers, who cited lack of endgame content and the tragically stillborn loot pinatas that replaced the D2 experience.
... honestly, I have a lot, LOT more I find to be a game design sin in D3, especially since they had D2 to use as a blueprint, but I'm rather of the opinion that it doesn't take a genius to not make those two mistakes.
I really wanted to enjoy d3 and play it for a long time but as of now this isn't happening. Yeah, the game was good but blizard is known for making games people would play for many years to come, especially one that took this long to make. Not saying Jay is to blame but I agree with Simon and some of the wrong choices made. As much as I wanted to enjoy it, there is a reason why it didnt get GOTY at all the top sites even with its sales and scores.
Also, "Fuck that loser." I mean, we can talk about Kotick being pure evil and Activision being greedy, making Blizzard fuse Diablo 2 with WoW, but i doubt that Wilson was forced by his overlords to post that on Facebook. He's a fraud.
The days of "when its done" are long gone.
1. Utter neglect of PvP, to the point of class imbalance, exploits, and conclusion that D3 will never have actual PvP. I think just about anyone could have seen how "telling the PvP guy to be quiet" might be bad for PvP.
games are not just about how many features a game has, so not having psp is not the existential problem of diablo 3, the auction house system is.
the real issue is that it is easier to get the gear you want from the auction then from the game, and that the auction house is subject to insane inflation (Blizzards tax is too low. essentially) the amount of total gold among the players keep increasing and blizzard is not taking enough away to account for that.
the problem is simpler though, in diablo 2 everyone complained about lack of a central marketplace, this became the auction house, however the team just did not predict the immense effect it would have on the game. and to be hones very few people did, everyone was lauding blizzard for solving this dacade old problem so nicely... untill a few weeks after release
also non offline play is most likely not a design choice as much as a publishers wish, again adding offline play would not have made the gameplay more fun.
and about his quote, was it wise no, but havent all of us ever felt that way, especially while getting kicked while we are already down getting pummeld over something you worked 7 years of your life to build and what you love? also he was referring to Hellgate London being not much of a succes either while under the false impression he was in a non public environment...
Yes it was extremely unwise and untimely and maybe even dumb but posting he is a fraud isn't very nice either is it? overall there is a lot of good to say about diablo3 ,
the combat feels really good, the art is lovely, the characters fun and entertaining, I played it for more the 70 hours whereas most AAA games get 1,5 from me these days.
therefore I think it is more dissapointment due to impossible expectations then the game actually being bad.
About the launched product, always online and that kind of stuff: you can't really blame all of that simply on one guy. What about the publisher? The thing that irritates me the most about this, is that D3 has great art, fun combat and loads of good content. They obviously took too much to work on (and end game always suffers), took a risk that turned out to fail (AH) and listened to the requests of the publisher (always online). If these things would have been done by an indie studio, we would have lauded them for their ambition, and the great things that stand. But since we're talking about Blizzard, we put an impossible load on a group, requesting nothing but perfection. It's not that easy.
I can understand angry or disappointing hardcore D2 fans, since D3 lost ground for those people. But members of the game industry, they should know better than throwing insults or saying how easily D3 could have been 10x better.
@Freek Hoekstra
"games are not just about how many features a game has, so not having psp is not the existential problem of diablo 3, the auction house system is. "
The problem, with pvp specifically, is Diablo is known to have an extremely simple pvp system. You simply hostile a player and seek them out. There was no objective other than collecting that other player's ear and there didn't need to be one.
Neither D1 or D2 was balanced around pvp, you just had to get creative with the more under powered classes. So this showed to me, because this system is so simple (hostile button, flag other player as target-able) and so true to the diablo series, that the D3 dev wasn't interested in carrying the torch of D2. They wanted to make their own game, which is respectable but not to be meet without resistance, especially with a series as beloved as diablo.
"the problem is simpler though, in diablo 2 everyone complained about lack of a central marketplace"
This is called D2jsp, and it works extremely well.
Adriaan Jansen
"If these things would have been done by an indie studio, we would have lauded them for their ambition, and the great things that stand. But since we're talking about Blizzard, we put an impossible load on a group, requesting nothing but perfection. It's not that easy."
This may be true for an indie title, however it is because it is Blizzard and because they have already released 2 great arpg titles that we put such expectations on them. But the expectations were simple, make another Diablo game. However they delivered, what I feel, was a reboot of the series.
Well now i guess he'll be making his mark on Titan.
Probably not a lot of people, I guess. It still broke all the sales records.
It'd be interesting to see how a Diablo 4 would do, x years down the line. It's not unreasonable to attribute a lot of D3's sales performance to D2's legacy. D3's apparently a great/successful game, but you can't help but wonder about what kind of legacy it's left behind.
I tried the open beta just to make sure I wasn't cutting myself off from a truly great game, I wasn't.
This is what you can always count on from Blizzard: that we will stand by our games and make every effort to continually improve them over time."
-Jay's Forum Post
I'm surprised he doesn't just point to Vivendi's sale of Activision since anyone with a brain can connect the dots on this one. Activision needed to capitalize on 10 years of investment before going to auction and that superseded the tradition of excellence at Blizzard... except now Blizzard is just another game developer with too much overhead and too little design talent, and is not going to afford the premium Activision paid for it. How do analysts value reputation?
http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/919/comments - is a good comic that sums up the cycle diablo 3 has taken. Everything was going to be awesome, way better than the poorly designed Diablo 2... then eventually we are just going to make it like diablo 2 anyway but kill any reason for you to care.
Don't forget the second tenet of customer service: Do NOT make ANY promise that you are not ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you can keep. Don't tease or even announce ANYTHING unless you are 100% certain it will be provided and exist. Even 99% certainty is not enough.
It seems like he is simply being moved to another project. It doesnt seem like he is being move due to fan backlash.
Arn't you glad?