What a stupid set of comments to write an article about ... allow me to make a similiarly astute set of observations.

I will not buy TT's next game - because it won't wash my car. It might be a good game, but we'll have to wait and see.

Jon,

There's no real expectation that games will wash cars though. Games are generally expected not to have input lag issues or face interface limitations. It seems like a fair area to comment on to me. Whether his concerns end up being justified is another matter, but it's certainly a reasonable area area to be concerned about.

@Jon

I think lag is a very important issue that needs to be considered.

Have you ever played an online game that had lag of even half a second? in an FPS a half second lag is enough of a lag to die repeatedly and ruin your enjoyment.

Having lag on a camera controlled game would also be an issue. If you have to perform an action at exact times, but there is a lag of even milliseconds between you performing that action and the game registering it, you will fail every time.

As for the button issue, that is up for debate. I enjoy the Wii. It has motion and buttons. Having both makes the possible actions even larger. You could have stabbing with the Wii Remote perform an action while holding the A button and stabbing with the Wii Remote perform a whole different function. Somethign that would not be possible without the buttons.

Good HCI design could easily resolve the lack of buttons as the system can handle full-body movement. Honestly, it just means developers have to be smarter in the way they designer their systems.

Lag is, however, a serious issue. Take a game running at 30 fps and add controller lag and you're FUBAR'd.

You can solve the lack of buttons issue by allowing the user to hold the controller while interacting with the Natal. Unless there are technical or legal reason not to (I wonder how much damage the 360 controller can do to an HDTV?).

Hopefully they can solve the lag issue.

I seem to recall hearing that Microsoft was considering not allowing controllers while using Natal. Of course that should be taken with a grain of salt as I heard it from someone working on Natal projects and not an official Microsoft representative.

"[Natal is] exceedingly clever, but the lag on the input and lack of physical buttons is really going to restrict the kind of games that can be done with it," he added.

wow who would of thought that
post of mine from june15 this year

"it will benifit only certain games
.. party
.. fitness
.. ummm help me out

game genres it wont help
... everything else (FPSs,driving,platformers etc)
"
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=54283&highlight=natal+party&page=15

Thats not to say that even with this lack of game type variety it cant be successful, look at wii-fit its shown that theres a huge market for the idea that a product can improve your body

I think only the lag is an issue, a clever designer can do good use of anything. Just reading the post already gave me ideas for FPS games with Natal. Other genres are just a step.

EDIT.: also... RTS and race. I wonder what could be done with, say 22 online players in a soccer game :)

Success is about having good games that make smart use of it.

"I think only the lag is an issue, a clever designer can do good use of anything."
Yes, but there are limits. RTS games don't work well with consoles mainly because controllers are not as easy to use as keyboard+mouse. Using a gesture to aim and fire isn't fun even if it is recognized correctly 100%.

to me the biggest problem is repetitive motion. making thousands of arms movements simulating a weapon swing is a lot diffferent than hitting a button. i'd get sick of it fast.

Hi !

Considering the cheap price today of a high definition video camera recorder, the ability to build great FX from a very affordable domestic computer, we could witness a resurgence of the Tex Murphy-like, Gabriel Knight-like ; the full motion video based games :

- any lag problem solved,

- potentially great appeal to a wider audience,

- the traditional gamer population doesn't feel betrayed,

- smart move to market the machine as a real multimedia device,

- no need for a tremondous game design (prior to quality writing and acting),

- the genre is easily sustained with new productions (low costs, short time development).

I think designers are going to have to do some heavy thinking to actually make motion controls entertaining for gamers. Far to often I see designers pretty much replace a button, or camera w/ the input device. I'd really like to see Natal used in tandem w/ the 360 controller, but I also fear too many designers will force the player to "throw" the controller instead of having the player mimic an action w/ a free hand while holding onto the controller w/ the other one.

As far as lag goes it's probably fine. For camera's, and some input yes lag is unacceptable, but many games already have 200ms or worse lag for certain inputs. Heck Killzone 2 had a 170ms lag on the camera controls (I think it was patched though), and it was deemed acceptable by plenty in the industry.

@JoshuaHawkins: I agree - motion and by extension video control (EyeToy, etc) need to addon rather than replace. Perhaps one suggestion would be to avoid hand gestures and arm gestures (keeping a controller in the hands) and instead focus on body and face; in the real world, we use our hands to manipulate but the rest of our body is rarely used in such conscious ways. Likewise, instead of making such things discrete visual actions (lean to the left to adjust the lean on the bike you're riding in game), translate bodily movement into more subtle or abstract concepts that naturally flow from what we're already doing.

That said, to an extent though, I think that such controls also require supporting technologies in order to entice people to act 'towards' their game. Remember that demo from a while back of the guy who rigged up the Wii sensor/remote with software so that the image on the screen would track and follow your head movements resulting in a exceptionally convincing illusion of depth and 3d? A technology like that using Natal (for the basic head tracking) combined with overall bodily movement would, I think, allow developers to take advantage of people reacting to a more convincing visual.

Appendium: An alternative would be to use systems like Natal not to replace controls but to encourage immersion/invoke emotion. For instance, say in GTA or Mass Effect, one had an interactive cutscene where one has captured someone. Rather than a list of options which one picks via button press, one would have to physically act out the general action - so the player would have to pantomine holding a gun out and pulling the trigger or what have you. Say in the standoff with Wrex in Mass Effect, while talking via button selection, the cue for Ashley to shoot Wrex was not determined by a dialogue but could be triggered at any time by a hand gesture (with Ashley shooting at some pre-determined 'fail' point in the dialogue. This would perhaps be either really stupid and contrived or particularly evocative.

On a lighter, a console version of Phoenix Wright or similar game - pointing to accuse someone or whatever.

It has distinctly powerful opportunities to effect the HUD, how options are selected, opening and closing map/radar/inventory, resizing, team member selections, etc. Lag issues aside, it could be a very engaging supplement to many games, and a competent main input device for others.

I'm not especially keen on motion control in general, but I do think it can add to many experiences while detracting very little.

Natal is DOA. I know a lot of people want to think of it as the next generation of input devices, but I have no interest in the control mechanics nor the desire to purchase another peripheral to a near outdated console. I think it is going to flop this gen, and when/if it does get packaged in with the next gen hardware, all the hype will be gone and it will flounder again.

People said similar things about console FPS' - but along came Goldeneye on N64, and how FPS are a staple on console. People said similar things about online connectivity in consoles, specifically saying it was going to be a mis-step for the original Xbox - but now look at the race for dominance in the online space between the big three console makers. People said similar things about the input devices for the Wii, and the Wii itself - but they were wrong.

Natal may succeed and it may fail - but people who expect it to just replace existing controller interfaces aren't seeing its real potential. Games will naturally evolve to use the interfaces that are best suited for them. FPS' will likely continue to use the controller, driving games will use a wheel & pedals - but there will be a whole generation of games that do things with motion control that couldn't be done another way.

The point of my original post was that dinging Natal, or any other motion control platform, for potential/perceived latency concerns and their inability to be directly applicable for all games is a short-sighted observation that ignores the potential for motion control to enable entirely new types of games for completely new audiences. IE - I could never have predicted that I would hear my 65 year old father bragging about having mastered Spin Control from virtual bowling in Wii Sports Resort.

I think the thing to remember is that Natal is more a way to grow the market by adding non gamers that a way to sell more games to traditional gamers. I wouldn't expect the guy who makes Lego Batman to think creatively but he didn't make much effort here, particularly by ignoring the fact that Natal can be paired with a controller. This has zero impact on me as far as predicting the success of the various motion controllers-I remain curious, but unlike this dude I'm not ignoring the fact that Sony has shown absolutely nothing of its wand whereas MS had put a very public emphasis on Natal.