I just want to repeat a statement I made on a blog that was featured recently:

Before you can really judge the potential success for games such as Mad World and Conduit, you must ask yourself, "Is the audience these games are designed for on the console?"

I would say the answer is an astounding "No."

Why? Well if the commenters of major games news sites (ie Kotaku, Joystiq, IGN, Gamespot etc) are anything to be judged by, the audience for games of that vein have long abandoned the Wii and now write off everything about it.

I think it is time for game developers to rethink the concept of "mature" games and think about what the Wii audience wants. A Good chunk of Wii owners are adults. A good chunk of those adult Wii owners are women. So let's take a look at what these women like.

These Women like Romance novels and movies. These women like cooking and home decorating shows. There are some great games to go with the cooking and home decorating genres, but they are often childish in visual aesthetics. Perhaps if some game developers were to get some licensing from HGTV and make some games from those shows. I know my wife would love it.

The Romance genre would require game designers to think of new ways to create gameplay for it. This would go beyond the dating sim genre in that it should be stories that appeal to adult women.

Now let's think about adult men who own a Wii. I would say a good chunk of these guys like authors such as Dean Koontz, Tom Clancy, Michael Crichton etc. They also like Sci-fi books from the 60's and 70's. The main goal here is to focus on game play that still emphasizes the suspense while not relying on action alone to move the game forward.

I think that is the key right there. Moving the center of gameplay away from the action and into the storytelling aspect of the games.

End the end, I would say that trying to win the "hardcore" gamer back to the Wii from the PS3 and 360 is probably a lost cause. Any that you do win will not be in the majority. So is it really worth it? Would it not be better to focus on making games that the people who own Wiis are more willing to play?

Very well said, Ephriam. For example, as an adult Wii owner I'd be curious to see how a heavily story based game like "Heavy Rain" would fare on the Wii (even without its over realistic graphics, of course). Personally, I feel that "mature" games like Dead Space, Mad World etc. tend to appeal to "teenagers who want to appear adults" and this is not the main platform's audience, obviously...

@ Ephriam

I disagree to an extent only because of your conclusion about the "hardcore" gamer not being on the Wii, since Zelda, Metroid, Mario etc, to me are as hardcore as any other game... so we circle back to the 3rd party IP issue.

Maybe im uninformed on the next point, but i would estimate that household purchasing in America lies with women, casual males wont be purchasing male-centric fiction on the wii, their wives wont let them (is this the reason for mature-game failing on the wii?).

Then your romance/HGTV theme starts sounding very good, and Wii fit, EA sports active lend some more weight (get it). However, is this what Ninty wants? a console for the casual, and the overweight?

i agree with mr. knight that a huge chunk of the wii owners should be served with more tailored
content they are already familiar with through their usual media consumption.

indeed, the problem lies in the old fashioned thinking of the huge publishers.
"mature" content still equals for them with explicit display of violence.
ignoring today's technical possibilities to create new experiences.
the often cited phrase is that japanese developers are loosing it.
from my point of view they are still the innovators.
think 'shadow of the colossus', which is able to provide a touching mature experience by telling a story.
leaving you unassured about right and wrong.

personally i was first interested to madworld just by the style of the title, but upon playing it i had been simply bored off by the repetitive game play.
the over the top violence scenes might prove fun for male youth, but adds nothing new.

while the other mentioned titles here are
a) an uninspired 1st Person Shooter and
b) 2x the old Rail Lightgun Shooter action thingy,
which attracts a thankful but smaller fan base per se.
but the mainstream consumer most likely is satisified with the Rail Shooter based on the Resident Evil Franchise in their games archive.
as far i remember capcom has not complained about their sales, think it had even beaten their expectations.

@Marco,

I agree on the Metroid, Zelda and Mario point. Those are games that teh "hardcore" gamer wants but can only find on the Wii. But for Games like The Conduit, Dead Space Extraction, Mad World, etc, those are games that the "hardcore" would much rather have on the PS3 or 360 because they have decided that those types of games are "inferior" when made for the Wii.

As for your response to my HGTV/romance games suggestion, who says those games have to be "casual" A Romance game can have quite a bit of depth and require quite a bit of game play. Such a game would only be limited by its writing. I suggest you take a look at Facade as an example of this type of game: http://www.interactivestory.net/

Also an HGTV type game could work out quite well. Let's take the Sims as an example. The Sims is one of the most popular games of all times, but what is it? It is little more than a virtual, interactive dollhouse made for all ages. This game could be classed as a casual game, but it is played as much as any "hardcore" game on the PS3 or 360.

As for your comment on the lack of buying power for Wii games with Males in families, I have no idea where your getting that information? Are you saying that the wives in a relationship will not let their husbands buy games they want even though those same wives will let their husbands buy books and movies?

@Roberto,

Heavy Rain has me excited. It would be really great to see more of that type of gaming done.

I think both Marco and Ephraim have a point.

Marco is absolutely correct in saying that Nintendo's "hardcore" franchises sell extremely well and will continue to. So that demographic exists on the Wii - no doubt about it.

But what I take from Ephraim's comment is the extent to which Wii owners will support IMMATURE games - games that are overly violent for no good reason other then to emphasize its 'M'-rating or games where characters swear non-stop for the same reason. No knock to MadWorld or House of the Dead: Overkill - I own and enjoyed both. Ironically, the M-rated games that have sold well on Wii tend to not be over-the-top and scream "HEY, I'm rated 'M'! See, here's why!" Marco's mention of EA Sports Active is another game aimed at adults that isn't 'M'-rated, but definitely mature.

In the end. This is type of news is getting a bit tired though. If these studios haven't figured out what type of content to put on the Wii, it's really on them. Seems we get a story about M-rated Wii games everyone other month or so.

This news disappoints me as a gamer though. I thoroughly enjoyed Mad World as a game on the Wii. It was FUN. It had issues, and definitely wasn't one of my favorite games, but I bought it, enjoyed it, and played through the entire thing (which I do not do often with games). I think the real issue that Sega is missing here is that both Conduit and Dead Space FEEL like they belong somewhere else. As much as Dead Space is a horror, its also a shooter. The Wii has repeatedly failed to incorporate the Wii-mote into shooter games well. House of the Dead as well.. shooters shooters shooters. Get off the Wii already, the Wii-mote does NOT track well enough for these games to be successful.

I think there is definitely a market for these types of games on the Wii. Even if the market advertises the Wii as a family friendly game machine for little kids, all my friends in their 20s still own one. The same friends who play Xbox 360 and PS3, who play Halo and who like action and mature games. But they don't like the games they make for the Wii... and I don't blame them.

These are all very valid points about the Wii, but there is one huge factor that I think has yet to be brought up and the publishers may not be considering this as an obstacle. This is the price of new Wii games! MadWorld, Dead Space: Extraction, they all started off at 49.99 to 59.99 dollars at launch. These are CAD, so adjust accordingly, but I'm sure you get what I mean. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to shovel out that much money for a Wii game. It was the first "next-gen" system I bought, and it was great in the beginning, but now these developers really need to push the motion controls and do something really new, really cool, and most importantly, DO IT WELL! Only it these things are present, will I consider purchasing a new game at that price. I know very few games on the PS3 or 360 are even worth those prices, or higher, at launch, but hi-def and all the graphical technology comes into play with the pricing too. Right now, the Wii has PS2 graphics, if not slightly better on some titles, and for the most part, poorly implementing "motion controls." Of course, there are games that do this well and I know they exist. I am just trying to say that a good reason as to why games like MadWorld or Dead Space: Extraction don't do well at launch is that the starting price is just ridiculous to what we should have to pay for a Wii game. Unless it is mind blowingly innovative and refreshing, no Wii game should ever debut with a price tag higher than 45.99CAD! I think that the Wii can "compete" with the other systems, it just needs to be aware of its own limitations and work with them, not against them.

A lot of good points in the comments. Personally, the "mature" games on the Wii generally don't appeal to me. Why? Not because they're rated M; I have several M titles for the PS2. These games on the Wii just don't look like they would be much fun to me.

I've read reviews of Mad World, and a lot of people think the game is great, and it may well be fun to play. The reviews did nothing to sway me, however, because looking at it as a "casual" consumer would, it doesn't look appealing to me. It looks like a game that combines kooky artistic experimentation and so-so beat-'em-up gameplay and tries to mask any shortcomings with excessive blood.

Dead Space Extraction? I know many people have voiced their opinions about trying to cash in on the Wii by just throwing an on-rails shooter on there. Again, it may be good, as some reviews suggest, but it's just not for me.

This is where I'm puzzled. As an example (because I'm not suggesting developers just copy the formula), I love the GTA games. Now people might say, "Well the Wii isn't as capable as the other next-gen consoles." Okay. But it's *more* capable than, at least, the GameCube. Are you telling me you couldn't put a game like Vice City, which was on the PS2, on the Wii. And no, Scarface doesn't count as a litmus test, because, like I said, it was just trying to copy the formula and didn't really see much success on any console.

The point is developers will get back what they put into it. MadWorld, Dead Space Extraction, House of the Dead: Overkill may have decent gameplay. But do they have the depth, polish, marketing, and fun factor of, say, Uncharted 2? Hardly.

Going along with Ephriam idea...I'm surprised there isn't a CSI or Law & Order game for the Wii. The shows are already familiar to the audience, and if done correctly may even be fun. Who wouldn't enjoy a good detective experience? Something like Condemned minus all the melee violence.

I'm pretty sure CSI games do exist on the Wii, and probably the DS as well, but the problem there is that there is no real effort put into those games. Most, if not all, of the time, these games are made to make quick cash-ins on the product name alone without any real thought put into the gaming experience. I agree that those kinds on games would be fun and interesting to experience, but only if the effort was put into making them a good game from start to finish. Can anyone say Phoenix Wright for the Wii?

Just to make a note on my previous comment:

I said "looking at it as a "casual" consumer would", but I didn't mean a casual gamer as the general definition of it.

I think even "hardcore" gamers are a bit casual to an extent, because many of them buy what's "big" at the moment, what their friends have.

The same as how I try not watch movies by analyzing every camera move, transition, and pacing, I buy games thinking about how fun it would be, not thinking about how underfunded the development team may have been or how much (or how little) hype it has.

@Daniel,

I love the idea of the Phoenix Wright games. I have not played them, but understand the praise they get. The problem with bringing to the Wii is that you would only be able to get the Phoenix Wright fans. Bringing new fans to the game would be hard. Now if you could do a similar game using the Law and Order IP, that would be different. If it had the same polish and depth as PW and the cast of LaO, you could have a winning game if marketed right.

See this is what I was referring to. To win over the new demographics the Wii has brought in, we need to start with licensed IPs, but we need to put in the polish and quality we give other top selling games.

We also need to market in new areas. Most of this market do not read Gamestop, IGN etc. We need to advertise in other areas. National News Papers, TV shows that this demographic likes etc.

@Ephriam

Exactly. We need the polish of a great game, but added to a licensed IP. This is, of course, a tall order as any gamer who has been around for awhile will know. (Although Batman proved it could be done last year.) It would also need to be done well enough so that it wouldn't be considered as PW but with a CSI or LaO skin overtop of everything. It would have to be able to stand on its own and be its own game but showing that it knows how to use ideas from existing games too. So much of the Wii demographic has become rather jaded since it's launch. They have seen how the "hardcore" gamers are being left behind for the easy cash-in of the "casual" gamers. The Wii needs to strike a balance between both. If it can do legit "casual" games, while still holding up with newer "next-gen" titles, then I think ti could easily be back on top, or at least up to par with the others.

I wish, there where more "mature" games like Hotel Dusk on the DS for the Wii. On the DS you can find surprisingly mature games in some places, you don't expect. I recently discovered Lifesigns - Hospital Affairs dealt with pretty mature themes for a DS hospital game.
I think it is a real good example of mature story telling. I agree with previous posters, most titles called "mature" aren't mature, but for boys and men from 14 to 18.
But unfortunately this isn't a Wii problem, it is a general problem, apart from Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy), Silent Hill 2, The Patch and Psychonauts, I haven't played much games in the last years, that I would call mature.
Silent Hill Shattered Memories seems to try to deliver a mature experience.

Dead Space bowling and Mad World Ping Pong should be in play. :-)

I agree with many of the thoughts here.
The common approach of the 'M' rated game fan = all adults is a fallacy that is causing many publishers a lot of grief. Many adults aren't 'Mature' rated game fans. Many adults find the content 'immature' as mentioned. I don't know so much about one console only having one thing or the other, but if the fans of one console are buying something that the fans of another console aren't buying, then it certainly suggests that specific content should go to a specific console (and that's not a bad thing...it's just the market...EA Active isn't on the 360 for the same reason that Dead Space isn't selling on the Wii, they're different markets)

I love to see variety.
I'd love also to see more good games on the Wii. Interestingly Ephriam, Trace Memory R (a 2nd party Wii adventure/mystery) and Disaster: Day of Crisis (a 2nd party Wii action title [great trailer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATBVwsqwFmM]) were both passed over for US release. They seem to both fit into your suggestions of what might work on the Wii.

Why?

Honestly, I don't know, but it speaks to NOA having a different perspective on the US Wii market than I do.

I am excited to see things like Endless Ocean 2 coming out. It's the kind of content that I believe speaks to some of the same audience you mention. An audience that I think offers opportunity to developers. I wonder why more developers aren't making more 'family' games for the Wii. I mean Wii Sports is a family game as is much of the Nintendo catalog, but many of the 3rd party developers equate family games to kid games, which is I believe a large part of why they are failing. (kid games for the kids and 'M' rated games for the adults only touches a small part of the Wii audience which is family oriented, and includes parents and grandparents!)

As an adult gamer, I'd love to see more games like Tiger Woods and Boom Blox that really take advantage of the platform and provide a unique experience. Don't get me wrong, I look forward to Red Steel 2, but figure on it as a rental, whereas something like Boom Blox makes my purchase list.

I agree with a lot of what has been said. I have a Wii but, don't really use it for anything at all these days. I bought new super mario brothers and found the controls attrocious. There are perfectly good classic controllers available but, I'm forced to contort my fingers to use the wiimote sideways?!??

To me the motion controls have become totally gimmicky and the games on the wii are by and large of such poor quality both visually and gameplay wise (everything needs motion controls Nintendo? Why?) that I don't even bother picking them up on the store shelves anymore. It's now selling as a fitness machine or for pub games. Even though Wii sold a lot over christmas I can imagine a fair few people who got one were less than pleased as a result. I witnessed one child (a nephew of mine) rush to the boxes, unbox the wii and wonder why itwasn't a 360 or PS3. His granny (who got it for him) was pleased as punch and playfully challenged him to a game of bowling, which he agreed to with a look I can only describe as fake gratitude.

I actually felt sorry for him, knowing that unless he was looking to get fit, he was pretty much stuffed as far as quality games went.

There is a lot of older style PC stuff that I think could be successful on the Wii. Stuff like MYST and point and click adventures plus co op play either over the internet or locally would be worth exploring.

It would be "problematic" for the Wii's image perhaps but a romance game that was sexy would be compelling. Other than course porn games there are not much in the way of good romantic games. Do a game of place intriguing with a chances for sexy time a la dragon age and perhaps the ladies would beat a path to your door.

@Ken Masters: I like fierce punch.

Possibly already said, but there is too much text already to sift through.

I'm waiting for publishers/developers to pick up on the fact that a "Mature" game does not simply equate to "increased violence, blood, and gore" and "excessive drug/alcohol use." Mature games can simply mean the use of Mature themes - themes that young and old adults can appreciate given their current socio-economic standings. Target the twitch crazy action games at teens, but give more mature narrative themed games to adults.

But the Wii's main problem was the complete hack job early games made of the motion controls. 3+ years later Nintendo releases motion plus, which allows for 1:1 correspondence between user motions and game actions, but the Wii craze is gone amongst the core gamer that really would have used it. Not to mention, MS Natal and the Sony Wand thing are basically here to compete as well. Nintendo missed the boat, and there is probably too much of an uphill battle at this point for them to carve out a core gamer niche that isn't based around 1st party titles.

Most of what I would say has been covered already, but I would like to add a few items:

01) I think the lack of a Mature rated killer app is harming the system. I know plenty of people who were interested in MadWorld, Dead Space and the rest, but weren't willing to buy the platform for those games. You need a console-selling game to get these people on board, something they simply cannot ignore. We haven't seen that for the (im)Mature market.

02) Marketing plays a huge role here. The marketing efforts behind the mentioned games (Dead Space, HotD and MadWorld) have been weak. I monitor the "hardcore" news channels pretty aggressively and while these games weren't silent, they weren't being shouted about from the rooftops either. Certainly not like M-rated games for other platforms. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy to refuse to market a Mature rated title then bitch about lack of sales and say "Mature rated titles just won't sell!"

03) Finally, you guys are right about the need for more variety in content, but you need to be very careful about what that content should be and what the quality level is. People, even "casuals," are extremely hip to the fact that most Wii titles being pushed out the door these days are crap. Most of my extended family members who own Wii systems have been burned by garbage shovelware. And don't be too fast to think you know the Wii market and what it needs. Ephriam's comments about what women want on the Wii console are bordering on offensive. If you're going in with those ideas in your head, prepare to fail.

A number of games have been successful on the Wii. Yes, most of them are from Nintendo, but it's not the Nintendo name that's doing the job here. I hear a lot of people whine about how Nintendo are dominating the Wii market and no 3rd party titles can survive, but it seems like people are too busy whining to really pick apart what Nintendo is doing that's so different. I promise you that the average casual Wii gamer doesn't care who publishes a title, just that it's appealing to them, is fun, and gives them value for their dollar. Any publisher is capable of delivering that if they're willing to do some real research into the market, figure out what people are looking for, and then deliver a QUALITY product that is EFFECTIVELY MARKETED.

It's not rocket science, people. If an audio guy can understand it but marketing/publisher people can't, then... well, maybe I need to move to a different sector of the business.

And you would do well to read this blog post. Great stuff on a very similar subject:

http://www.brainygamer.com/the_brainy_gamer/2009/12/dear-brutus.html

After reading the comments and such I think the Wii 'Mature' game is completely wrong and many people have hit it on the head already. The Wii needs 'Mature' games that you can play in front of your kids. Right now when the kids go to bed and I break out a mature game the Wii is very far from my destination. With M games like Dragon Age, the original Dead Space, Mass Effect 2, Bioshock why would I pick up the Wii stuff? As an adult, I will buy some stuff for me and some stuff for my kids... and some stuff I like to play while they are watching.

I don't care what system it is on really, I would prefer HD and no motion controls though, but I think the market of gamers with only a Wii that want hardcore (content hardcore that is) Wii is non-existent. This is why the numbers fail.

I think applying the suggestions Ephriam pointed out are the only thing left to try. Most Wii only owners won't have the stigma against licensed software, so starting out with a polished familiar TV ip is a great way to go about it.

But is it even worth it? You are talking about the Wii only customer base. Nintendo markets their 1st party content extensively via email, ads, in gamebox pamphlets... any 3rd party effort will be drowned out unless it gets the same 'in your face' pounding like 1st party titles do anyhow.

@Mark,

"Ephriam's comments about what women want on the Wii console are bordering on offensive. If you're going in with those ideas in your head, prepare to fail."

I am sorry to be border line offensive. My example was raised from my wife and mother's taste in entertainment. Those are the types of shows they watch on TV, the types of books they read and movies they watch. Yes they like some of the other stuff strewn about in there like criminal drama and such but those are secondary choices of entertainment.

My wife loves games like the Sims, Zoo Tycoon, Wii Fit, Wii Sports etc. Based on her love for HGTV and the Sims, I think she would absolutely enjoy a redecorating game based on some of the shows on that channel.

My mother also loves those shows. My mother is also a amateur carpenter. She like building shows as well as decorating shows. If there was a game based on "This Old House" I think she would love it.

Granted, this is all based on market research with a sample size of 2 but I think it is a good way to start.

Does anyone find it odd that Mr. Hantzopoulos finds a shooter-on-rails to be a valid "litmus test" for mature gaming on the Wii?

@Michael

Fantastic point. That didn't occur to me because I was latching on to other games, specifically No More Heroes (my favorite mature title thus far for the Wii), but you're absolutely correct. It's a pretty niche genre to begin with, and far from the style of successful mature titles you see on other platforms.

@Ephriam

That's fine, as long as you acknowledge your sample base. My wife would be throwing things at you if she read the comment you posted about what female Wii gamers want. If anything, I think a big part of the challenge on the Wii is creating something with broad appeal. Unlike the hardcore gamer market, who are generally into comics, big sci-fi movies, The Office and caffeine, you've got a much more diverse group of people to develop for here. The old tricks aren't going to work.

Someone should really do some solid research into what this market are seeking. And everyone should be studying Nintendo. They're successful for a reason. You can ridicule the motion controls and "kiddieness" of their games all you want, they're still pushing insane amounts of product.

And on the motion control front, I don't hate the motion controls. I hate lame implementations of them, and there are a lot of poor attempts out there. But some games have very solid controls, particularly Metroid Prime Trilogy, Tiger Woods, Wii Sports Resort and Silent Hill (though the last one has its problems on occasion). I put the blame for good or bad motion controls squarely on the developers. Nintendo has given us what we need to deliver engaging motion-based games, we just have to use it. When devs complain about this I want to tell them how lazy and unimaginative they are.

@ Ephriam

Maybe i use the term casual too loosely or broadly, but without getting too wrapped up in semantics, to me it is more of a type/class than a genre, and as far as i can tell if its not Hardcore it is casual by default.

Now, you are absolutely right it doesn't have to be causal, and it could work quite well (i never intended to contend you on that issue and i will check out your suggestion) and yes it does seem that people have decided that the Wii is inferior, but that is the problem isnt it.

What i wanted to convey is that Nintendo does not want to be pigeonholed as a platform for Romance/cooking women and sci-fi/thriller men. It does not want to be inferior, It goes against common marketing principles, if not the stated purpose of the Wii which is to broaden the appeal of games to others.

I've just realised that maybe the question you posed may not have been correct, because if they had built the Wii only for the audience they knew that existed and had catered to previously, it would not have become as successful as it obviously has.

And again herein lies the issue, those types of games cannot go away for the wii, otherwise it becomes a one trick pony (2 or 3 if you will, but you get the point.)

On where i got my female purchasing power bit, i really have no intelligent argument for, it is pure opinion and i could have done a better job of stating that it wasnt based on facts... but still "i think" it holds true. I dont think its as simple as the wives wont let them do A or B, but when a book costs 20 bucks and a movie rental/purchase 5/20, and you compare that with 50 or 60, yeah the wives would object. Its not unheard of for grown men to have to excuse their purchase of a videogame to a spouse (goes down everyday in my house)

Your LaO game sounds amazing and if i were a gaming exec id give you money to make it, so you are right there is content/gameplay still untapped.

@ others
With the benefit of several replies which provide very good points, i think we can extract that is not one thing, we have several issues: quality, licensed IP, marketing, price etc. And just as we find it difficult to completely agree, i think devs, publishers and console manufacturers are in similar suituations axcept they have data to back them up.

Finally i think that all too often we color our view with gamer/developer glasses, and we cannot see that clearly that fact that we are discussing it here (were game developers and enthusiasts meet) almost guarantees that we do not get viewpoint that we need (btw i belong the the latter).

I'm the audience they're going for and my Wii is unplugged and I'm too lazy to plug it in. Ephriam has the right approach but we need people like him with $$$ to back it up.

I got bored of waiting for games I would like to play to come out and when they finally did there was no community, e-peen to back it up. Would be great to say have your Wii connect to say Facebook.

@ Eric Adams - how about Omnikron Sports?

No Mike, it is all about Heavy Rain Shuffleboard!

Fair criticisms, and I would have predicted Poor sales, possibly even Terrible sales. But 10,000 units is more like Catastrophic sales. I feel bad for the dev team. :(

(Also, when does God of War Ultimate Frisbee come out for the Wii? Mortal Kombat Pingpong?)

A lot of successful games on the Wii have these characteristics:

1) Easy to learn and difficult to master.
2) Can get meaningful play if only picked up for just a few minutes.
3) Local multiplayer.
4) Aimed at every demographic.

Guitar Hero and Rockband have these characteristics and they do fairly well on the Wii. Nintendo makes several games with these characteristics and they sell like crazy. A lot of 3rd party games on the Wii are niche single player games, so it shouldn't be surprising that they don't do well.

Success recipe for a Wii game: "should be bundled with Wii, have an accessory. mario branding preferred."

What is interesting to me about the broad appeal comments is that with 55 million Wiis in North American and the EU, you would not need a broad appealing game to make good (recoup and few % profit) money.

@John Gordon

All of the above is true. But I would also add this:

5) Focus on Motion control.

The best-selling 3rd party games on Wii are games like Carnival Games, Game Party, Mario and Sonic, and Rayman Raving Rabbits. While these were not critical successes, largely due to their focus on motion control and the inconsistency of that, they sold well because that's what people wanted.

It's surprising how weak the effort has been in making games that truly use what makes the Wii so appealing... that is, swinging your arms around like an idiot in front of your family and friends.

With Motion plus you'd think they'd be jumping on it like madmen, but no. We'll probably see 10 more on-rails shooters before we get that.

I wouldn't say MadWorld is "mature", I would say "hilariously immature." The fact is, there have never been that many mature games released. Normally, "mature" means extra blood and gore, not adult oriented content. And no, I don't mean porn, I mean entertainment aimed at adults. Stuff like Max Payne if Max wasn't a cartoon of himself. Mortal Kombat has always been rated Mature and has always been silly childish fun. What else can you really call a game where you vomit so your opponent will slip in it and you can rip someone's head off and throw it at him or beat him to death with his own leg? The fact is, most of these "mature" games are exactly the stuff a thirteen year old boy would create!
As for Dead Space, I own a Wii and am an adult, I'm not interested in this game though - I can get a better Dead Space on my PC. Many Wii owners are older and most adults have a PC, so why would they buy PC games for their console? I think this is why PC games do alright on Xbox and PS3 - some of this audience doesn't have a PC of their own. Instead of giving up on adult content on Wii, why not try a better game than a rail shooter?

Two things that will ultimately always determine a Wii game's success, marketing and its controls.

Dead Space Extraction while a quality game IMO, lacks both. The game is a quasi-on rails shooter, a decision done most likely to save on development time and make it easier for the non-gamers that make up much of the Wii's primary audience. That was the mistake that killed the game for a lot of gamers. Had it been a FPS, even limited to small levels with mostly linear events, many more probably would have given the game a chance. With just the targeting control, you don't really draw the non-gamers into the game and without giving more control you alienist most of the hardcore audience that this is supposed to be a test for.

Even as is, if the game was given a brief 30 second commercials around its Halloween release date, similar to what I had seen done for the original Dead Space, it probably would have landed at well over 250,000 instead of sitting at below 200,000 like it is now. Outside of online previews, I saw no real push for Extraction and even the cover art for the game looks unappealing and just uninspired. It sort of discredits the game because by itself, it is a game the development team obviously put a bit of work to make it top notch graphically (for a non-Nintendo Wii game) and they tried to make the game more interesting with a very good story and some non-shooting sections of the game. EA did a lot of things right with this game, but in trying to get it out the door, they completely failed to make it appealing to any gamer, casual or traditional that had no interest in the franchise or were willing to support what amounts to a nice somewhat interactive scary movie.

@Anatoly

Wrong wrong wrong. This attitude is why third parties are failing so miserably on the Wii. It's a defeatist attitude and it focuses on the wrong things. Those elements certainly contribute to a game's success, but they don't make or break it. A lot of the successful games on the platform only meet one of your three criteria.

@Uyiosa

I shouldn't have even bothered posting. You've summed up what I was feeling much better than I did. Dead on.

I bought Dead Space: Extraction, but only because I enjoyed the game on my PC. The Wii version when it comes down to it was a let down from the start, not because the Wii isn't up to the spec of my PC, nor did it not deliver as the delevoper's promise, but do to the fact it was an on-rail shooter. It's kind of baffling that anyone would hold this up as some sort of litmus test, unless they're looking for an excuse to ignore the Wii, because it really had everything going against it.

I also own Mad World and The Conduit for reference. Neither is a game I'd categorize as mature, nor are either games near the quality of a game like Mario Galaxy or Zelda TP as an example, but that's not to say they aren't good games in their own respect. But they are certainly not mainstream. The Conduit may have done much better a decade back, but now it's just run-of-the-mill FPS. MadWorld, a B&W brawler is really a niche game, but at least it sold better than its color counterpart(GodHand) on the PS2.

This whole mature and hardcore rhetoric is silly and nothing more than marketing fluff. Most of the games that console guys view as such are generally juvenile in nature and their difficulty is usually a walk in the park(An ultra safe one.). It has become a self-professed title that has me rolling my eyes when anyone introduces themselves as such.

Anyways, the only thing I know for certain, is that 3rd party developers are not willing to commit the time and budget to the Wii to produce a "quality" game, so something along the lines of Nintendo's offerings, let alone even a port like Resident Evil 4:Wii. This game is fantastic. I hold it way above the lackluster Resident Evil 5, which I played on my PC. I really can't see any developer putting that much effort into the Wii outside of Nintendo, because most are running around trying to fulfill their own prophecies.

I hope they can still make great titles. I don´t think all those titles "Mature" are really mature, maybe because of the blood and all the violence but not in the themes and story/content.
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The users Nintendo alienated with the N64 who went on to Sony and Microsoft are still with those systems and not likely to be on the Wii. Like I said in a different post: If you (Nintendo) burn bridges with developers (and end-users) it will take a long time to rebuild them. You can't just expect all the hardcore "mature" gamers to say "oh look, Nintendo's changed its ways after a decade from one system to the next, let's all go flocking back!" especially when they're now LOCKED in to Online gameplay on PC, 360 and PS3. Nintendo really alienated a HUGE sector. Oh well. I still like them, to say the least. Frankly I don't care what the content is so long as it achieves what all games are supposed to achieve: fun.

I have always thought and will more than likely continue to think that the rating system and how it is use to describe the contents of a game is backwards and has harmed gaming overall. In the past games were not marked with ratings and anybody willing enough to spend time to enjoy a game got a lot out of the experience. Once the rating was created developers saw a immature reason to justify needless violence in sacrifice of good content. Now games that are mature have been marked by the M of death, only placing focus on the things that seem mature while not push the envelope on things that are mature. Mature should be based around themes rather than graphically decaying buildings with blood thirsty monsters in them. The Wii has the opportunity to create a market around this. It just that third parties want to push the same old type of game out and call it hardcore. An M rated game does not make a game a hardcore game, and I think developers need to push past this paradigm of thinking going in to the new year. Has not it occurred to the developer yet that the reason people bought the Wii was to get away form games that are just like the PS3 and Xbox 360 games?

As game developers and designers it seems that we're fixated with the product or the control method, but one thing that Nintendo has consistently done re: N64 / GB / DS / Wii is to focus on the user's activity and prioritise that above all else. This is how they've managed to stay on top in terms of sales and popularity despite having inferior graphics, storage capacity, and churning out the *same* games over and over again.

Think about it. It's the exact opposite of how the industry perceives change: with Sony, Microsoft, Nvidia et always pushing more polys or disc capacity for naked girlies or trying to innovate in the wrong areas to differentiate themselves as more "cutting edge" [ insert hyperbole ] while overlooking a simpler more dare I say it holistic approach to designing for real world interactions and the social aspect of playing games as families, and groups in the playground.

We're so caught up in this cult of iteration, and standing on our peers shoulders in an effort to reach the ever higher branches of the money tree that I think is the reason we have so many bland games out there. Of course, it doesn't help that games production for the last 20 odd years has been captive to the whims and backing of publishers who don't have the knowledge or vision to attempt something different in terms of what actually goes on between the player and the game.

-

Although the games don't grab me as I was more of an Amiga kid and never owned a Famicom, Nintendo really know how to stack their userbase with titles like Zelda and Mario which keep the conservative mainstream hardcore coming back for more of the same while attracting new younger [ DS ] and mom pop [ Wii ] users as well. This is just genius and they can put out the exact same game generation after generation to great critical reception and sales. Sure, EAD + Miyamoto do a fantastic job of prototyping game mechanics and always take their time with ridiculous amounts of time devoted to polish but really it's *us* and our memories who are their greatest asset as we introduce Nintendo to our kids, parents, and non-gamer social circles.

It will be very interesting to see how Sony and Microsoft fare with their motion controllers as this is one part of the equation. How they can surpass Nintendo in terms of approachability, familiarity, and most importantly social connectedness through the play that their games can create however will be the big battle if they want similar success. Listen to what Sid Meier is saying now about how play is inherently a social activity, because there's a lesson to be learned there for keen game designers. And the lesson isn't just adding Facebook Connect to a single-player game. Anyhow, looking forward to Bayonetta tomorrow ..!


-- Chuan

Again, with all due respect to the developers and publishers: the people citing Dead Space: Extraction, House of the Dead: Overkill, and Madworld as evidence that M-rated games cannot succeed on the Wii are largely overlooking that these games are _bad_. They each have moments of fun, but the overall quality of each is low for a variety of reasons beyond the scope of this comment.

Conduit was sold in the marketing campaign as a multiplayer game. That was flawed for two reasons: Nintendo seems to actively discourage MP game development in deeds, not words, and the MP component of Conduit was (drumroll) bad. Maps were too small and unimaginative, the mechanics were all right, and the UI was designed more to be customized than used.

Conduit's single-player experience was abysmal.

While Ephraim wants to dismiss all Wii-owning women (30% or so of all Wii purchasers are women, 54% or so of all Wii game purchases are made by women) as nothing more than cooks and interior decorators, the fact is a large number of Wii owners are still... men. Even if we want to dismiss the female segment as uninterested in mature games and count only the male segment, which is silly, that's still a _large_ market. Make a good M-rated Wii title and it will sell.

Developers and publishers, though, have little incentive to do a Wii-only title. The market is dominated by Nintendo legacy IP, cost of goods are high, Nintendo certification is long, and the perceived price point is relatively low. Thus, when developers and publishers consider the Wii, it is usually as an incremental cost for a product being developed for other console systems. Many Wii owners (70% or so) own two consoles including the Wii, and if a title comes out for both the Wii and another console they tend to buy it for the other console because even if the story is the same, it is a richer experience visually and they don't have to put up with lazy-developer Wii Remote gestures as essential parts of game play.

There are lots of factors going against them - but the primary factor is the games being cited as evidence of M-rated games failing on the Wii were poorly made.

I'm just sayin'.